Campaign to save the YAPP

[nigelmercier]

Someone has complained to the mods that I am promoting a business here and the mods have got in a huff and told me to stop...

I think this attitude is appalling. What Angus is doing is totally within the bounds of Practical Boat Ownership, and should be encouraged, not prevented. If they don't change their attitude then I for one will cancel my subscription.

UPDATE

Hiya

Just to clear a few things up.

Firstly we don't want AngusMcDoon to stop posting what is clearly a very useful source of information for you guys. The mod team had to check whether it was a commercial enterprise, and to be honest it wasn't absolutely clear to us whether it's an open source project or a commercial one.

Secondly PBO editorial team do not moderate the forums so it's really not their fault.

I think we may have been over zealous in this matter, apologies to Angus if we got the wrong end of the stick but it's a very fine line to walk as we get so many complaints from users and advertisers if we let companies promote their businesses.

Cheers,
Natalie Davies
YBW Forums Admin

Well done Natalie, and thank you.

 

[david_bagshaw]

Couldn't agree more. Completely in the spirit of PBO in my opinion. dont have a sub to cancel though.

 

[Vara]

That's a nonsense, the decision should be revoked.

 

[Swanrad2]

If he was importing and selling stuff I would agree.

As far as I can make out he is designing and making useful stuff at lower costs than the big boys (advertiser complaint maybe?). This seems more than fair - ask the users if they are offended and then act.

On balance the forum is better for the discussions generated (even ignoring the product).

 

[bendyone]

The Mods have got it wrong on this one.

 

[vyv_cox]

I admire these YAPPS tremendously. Totally outside my knowledge and skills but clearly topics that interest many practical yachtsmen. Can PBO please reconsider?

 

[Tradewinds]

The Mods have got it wrong on this one.

Totally agree.

It's what the PBO forum should be about.

 

[Plevier]

Ridiculous.
I hope sometime there will be a YAPP that I want, in the meantime I greatly enjoy reading about them.

 

[mrming]

Who on earth would complain?

The YAPPs are DIY electronics projects in the spirit of PBO, often based on open source hardware and software, and sold by Angus to fellow forumites in tiny quantities.

I honestly think the complainant has a problem with the perception of reality.

It's the same attitude we see when Dylan Winter is a accused of making money hand over fist from his blog / videos, somehow at our expense. Utter cobblers.

 

[Swanrad2]

Who on earth would complain?

Advertisers?

 

[MrB]

How can PBO put a stop to someone pushing the boundaries of safety for the benefit of it's subscribers yet endorse a money making scam that is Elizmor??

 

[dom]

I admire these YAPPS tremendously. Totally outside my knowledge and skills but clearly topics that interest many practical yachtsmen. Can PBO please reconsider?

+1 the YAPP suite of gizzmos is PBO at its inventive best, seasoned with a little bit of Barnes Wallis ingenuity.

IMHO McDoon is an obviously non-commercial inventor, one of the most fascinating guys on here, and a great ambassador for your brand. I'd think twice before shoving a stick between his spokes.

 

[mrming]

Advertisers?

The banner at the top looks like it's being served by an ad-serving system in which case this will be one of many sites those ads are appearing on and it's very unlikely they are paying close attention.

The smaller ad I see is for Magazines Direct. Can't see how they are competing with Angus.

 

[bedouin]

Unbelievable - this is exactly what PBO should be promoting.

It is hard to seen any issues with this, it is not likely to damage IPC or any of the advertisers

 

[Swanrad2]

The banner at the top looks like it's being served by an ad-serving system in which case this will be one of many sites those ads are appearing on and it's very unlikely they are paying close attention.

The smaller ad I see is for Magazines Direct. Can't see how they are competing with Angus.

I could be wide of the mark (that's why I out a ?), but flicking through the last PBO there are pages of chandler's and electronic brand's advertising. DIY electronics could be unwanted competition(?)

 

[Blue_mischief]

Ridiculous.
I hope sometime there will be a YAPP that I want, in the meantime I greatly enjoy reading about them.

I admire these YAPPS tremendously. Totally outside my knowledge and skills but clearly topics that interest many practical yachtsmen. Can PBO please reconsider?

+1 both counts

 

[mrming]

I could be wide of the mark (that's why I out a ?), but flicking through the last PBO there are pages of chandler's and electronic brand's advertising. DIY electronics could be unwanted competition(?)

I hadn't thought of the mag itself. I sincerely hope that's not the case - you would hope that commercial brands would recognise the hobbyist / enthusiast nature of YAPP.

 

[sailor211]

Its non commercial and in the spirit of PBO. Very useful for the hobbyist.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Any restriction of YAPPs would be absurd. What's next - banning advice on paint strippers because professional paint stripping companies exist?

They should be giving Angus a regular slot in PBO, not muzzling him.

 

[JohnGC]

Would the originator of the complaint explain their reasoning please?

I am an Electronics and Software Design consultant, I have run my business for over 10 years, before that I was Design Manager at a medium size electronics manufacturer and have been in this "business" for 30 years. I am very familiar with the process Angus goes through to develop YAPPs and I am very familiar with the "business".

YAPPs, as I see them, cost Angus a great deal of time and a modest amount of money for materials. By offering YAPPs to interested forum users he can recoup some of the material costs. If there is sufficient interest in a YAPP, Angus may make a small profit on materials but he cannot possibly make a living from them. It seems highly unlikely that he would make more than a few pence per hour for the development time. He also has the expense of development tools and if those are taken into account then I suspect he runs at a loss. Then he makes these devices "open source" which renders them unsuitable for a profit making business.

I have a YAPP, it is something I could easily make myself, but I chose a YAPP from Angus because I wanted to support his endeavors and his price was so low it could only be covering the material costs. IE I couldn't of made it for less. I have also offered to help with the design work of one of the YAPPs. I have no interest in sharing in the "sales" of that YAPP (I don't even want one), I simply wanted to make a contribution to a very helpful forumite.

The only possible commercial benefit to Angus I can see is in advertising his skills. But nobody who is seriously looking for an embedded electronics or software developer is doing it on these forums.

Others have commented that Angus and YAPPs are within the spirit of the PBO forum and I wholeheartedly agree. Requesting Angus to cease seems to be contrary to the aims of Reader-to-Reader.

So what is the point or issue I'm missing? Would the complainant or moderators please explain?