Calcium batts in domestic bank

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BelleSerene

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I have to replace 2 * 230Ah AGM batteries in my domestic bank. They just won't hold their charge any longer. I'm thinking of going sealed lead acid for value for money. I am wondering if I can/ should go for a calcium one, as it apparently reduces gassing - and seems cheaper; but they require a higher absorption charging voltage. I can set absorption voltage (up to 15V so should be OK for a calcium battery's higher requirement?), float voltage and absorption time on the Alpha Pro regulator.

Price evidence: Enduroline from Tayna £215 each: https://www.tayna.co.uk/EXV270-Enduroline-Heavy-Duty-Calcium-Leisure-Battery-P8488.html

I have an 80A alternator, a 40A battery charger, an Argo FET battery isolator and Scheiber electronic battery separator (?!) and the Alpha Pro regulator. The engine starts off a dedicated 115Ah lead acid battery (Alphaline XV31MF).

If I went for the Calcium batteries (2 giving me ~260Ah domestic) would I be creating a problem that the high charging voltage I'd have to set for the domestic bank would be excessive for the engine battery? And is it a c**p idea anyway - should I go for some other reasonably priced solution?

Really grateful for expertise here.
 
Generally speaking, there isn't much difference in the charge voltage for calcium vs antimony batteries. (Both misnomers: they're both lead-acid with a small percentage of different alloying elements.) The significant charging difference is between open and sealed batteries (or AGM or gel, neither of which is applicable here), whatever the lead is alloyed with.

As suggested, true deep-cycle batteries are generally more suited to liveaboard life. To that I'd add one important caveat: if the boat is left unattended for long periods, lead-calcium has the benefit of very much lower self-discharge rates, as the OP notes. They can confidently be left unattended for six months or more; I'd hesitate to do that with lead-antimony Trojans such as T105s. Batteries, like boats, are a compromise. Choose the ones that suits your circumstances best.
 
BelleSerene said:
I have to replace 2 * 230Ah AGM batteries in my domestic bank. They just won't hold their charge any longer. I'm thinking of going sealed lead acid for value for money. I am wondering if I can/ should go for a calcium one, as it apparently reduces gassing - and seems cheaper; but they require a higher absorption charging voltage. I can set absorption voltage (up to 15V so should be OK for a calcium battery's higher requirement?), float voltage and absorption time on the Alpha Pro regulator.

Price evidence: Enduroline from Tayna £215 each: https://www.tayna.co.uk/EXV270-Enduroline-Heavy-Duty-Calcium-Leisure-Battery-P8488.html

I have an 80A alternator, a 40A battery charger, an Argo FET battery isolator and Scheiber electronic battery separator (?!) and the Alpha Pro regulator. The engine starts off a dedicated 115Ah lead acid battery (Alphaline XV31MF).

If I went for the Calcium batteries (2 giving me ~260Ah domestic) would I be creating a problem that the high charging voltage I'd have to set for the domestic bank would be excessive for the engine battery? And is it a c**p idea anyway - should I go for some other reasonably priced solution?

Really grateful for expertise here.
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You're engine start battery will not appreciate being charged at 15v, it'll die very young. Set your charger for the Alphaline and the calcium batteries will be OK. 14.6v absorption and 13.6v float will work for both batteries. Calcium batteries are still lead acid batteries, in fact, most automotive/leisure batteries these days are calcium.
 
BelleSerene said:
I have to replace 2 * 230Ah AGM batteries in my domestic bank. They just won't hold their charge any longer. I'm thinking of going sealed lead acid for value for money. I am wondering if I can/ should go for a calcium one, as it apparently reduces gassing - and seems cheaper; but they require a higher absorption charging voltage. I can set absorption voltage (up to 15V so should be OK for a calcium battery's higher requirement?), float voltage and absorption time on the Alpha Pro regulator.

Price evidence: Enduroline from Tayna £215 each: https://www.tayna.co.uk/EXV270-Enduroline-Heavy-Duty-Calcium-Leisure-Battery-P8488.html

I have an 80A alternator, a 40A battery charger, an Argo FET battery isolator and Scheiber electronic battery separator (?!) and the Alpha Pro regulator. The engine starts off a dedicated 115Ah lead acid battery (Alphaline XV31MF).

If I went for the Calcium batteries (2 giving me ~260Ah domestic) would I be creating a problem that the high charging voltage I'd have to set for the domestic bank would be excessive for the engine battery? And is it a c**p idea anyway - should I go for some other reasonably priced solution?

Really grateful for expertise here.
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On a Ah/Target Life/VFM basis, for us, go for calcium/calcium leisure batteries every time. Our boat is 26 years old; a Freedom 38 built in Newport Rhode Island; originally came with 2 X 105Ah Delphi Freedom batteries, and a 1-2-Both-Off Switch. In 2006, we had a full "live-aboard re-fit" and changed to a total of seven of a similar type (Varta LFS-105) for engine start (1), generator start(1), windlass(1) and domestic(4). We replaced these in 2013 as they were down to about 75% capacity. Our alternator charging system is a 90 Amp Prestolite alternator, feeding through a Balmar 612 charge controller (with battery voltage and battery temperature sensors) and Blue Sea System VSR switches; mains charger is a Victron Multi Inverter/Charger 12/120/2400; both are set to bulk charge at 15 volts and we have had no problems with our Furuno instruments / radar / chart plotter / microwave / induction hob etc., etc. We have 160 watts of solar panels for trickle charging and maintenance when we are not on board and there is no shore power, and a Fischer Panda i4000 generator for battery charging and AC provision when we are not running the engine or don't have shore power. AGM batteries have a higher coulometric efficiency and some, such as Lifeline, can be charged at much higher amperages - although voltage has to be controlled very precisely. Well treated and precisely monitored (a rarity), AGM batteries can outlast all other lead acid types - unless you have the room and vertical space for 2v deep cycle models. Notwithstanding your concern about charging voltage, unless you are confident of your battery charging and management, calcium/calcium would probably represent better VFM.
 
macd said:
I wouldn't have thought the Endurolines would, either. Still wondering where that suggestion came from.
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My Sterling charger has a calcium profile, 15.1v absorption and 13.6v float. I wouldn't want to use that with any of my batteries, 3 x 130ah calcium and 1 x calcium starter battery. My solar controller is set to 14.4v and 13.4v.

15v is an equalisation voltage on my Sterling charger, not something i'd want to use every day.
 
PaulRainbow said:
My Sterling charger has a calcium profile, 15.1v absorption and 13.6v float. I wouldn't want to use that with any of my batteries, 3 x 130ah calcium and 1 x calcium starter battery. My solar controller is set to 14.4v and 13.4v.

15v is an equalisation voltage on my Sterling charger, not something i'd want to use every day.
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+1 to all that, Paul.
 
Thank you for your wisdom here!

Just spoken to those excellent guys at Tayna. They don't recommend the calcium batteries, being 'wet', for under a bunk which is where they are sited. (They're also open-cell vents so I couldn't use a vent tube even if I could make it access the cockpit, which would be tricky.)

Do you/ would you worry about lead acid batteries under a bunk?
 
BelleSerene said:
Thank you for your wisdom here!

Just spoken to those excellent guys at Tayna. They don't recommend the calcium batteries, being 'wet', for under a bunk which is where they are sited. (They're also open-cell vents so I couldn't use a vent tube even if I could make it access the cockpit, which would be tricky.)

Do you/ would you worry about lead acid batteries under a bunk?
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Tayna are talking utter bollox. My batteries are under a sofa in the saloon (makes into a bunk), just like the vast majority of boat batteries i'd imagine. I've bought several batteries from Tayna over the years, but when i recently needed to replace my domestic bank they were less than helpful, one guy was positively arrogant/unpleasant and they were significantly more expensive than several other companies i had quotes from. Battery megastore were very helpful and sold me three 130ah Hankook batteries at a very good price.
 
BelleSerene said:
Thank you for your wisdom here!

Just spoken to those excellent guys at Tayna. They don't recommend the calcium batteries, being 'wet', for under a bunk which is where they are sited. (They're also open-cell vents so I couldn't use a vent tube even if I could make it access the cockpit, which would be tricky.)

Do you/ would you worry about lead acid batteries under a bunk?
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I sleep on top of my domestic bank every night, and have done for nine years. Tayna are probably taking this stance because flooded lead acid are now a definite nono in any charter vessel; the RCD may also have something to say on it - as will the Boat Safety Directive - never argue with Elfins Afety - he's always right!
 
>To that I'd add one important caveat: if the boat is left unattended for long periods, lead-calcium has the benefit of very much lower self-discharge rates, as the OP notes. They can confidently be left unattended for six months or more; I'd hesitate to do that with lead-antimony Trojans such as T105s. Batteries, like boats, are a compromise. Choose the ones that suits your circumstances best.

There is no way I would leave any type of battery uncharged for six months once they lose power you would need to jump start it from anther battery. Deep cycle batteries are golf cart batteries and thus well suited to domestic uses, I'm surprised Cold Cranking Batteries are used for domestic purposes they are not designed for that.
 
IIRC aren't Enduroline simply re-labelled Powerline (?) batteries? Enthusiastically marketed by Tayna for double the price and an extra year of dubious warranty.
 
>Ah, friend Kelly, with something else from his wonderful black-and-white world.

Would you use CCA batteries for house batteries rather the deep cycle ones? It is a black and white issue.

>>P.S. Still struggling with those quotes, I see.

Can't see any reason to change it is clear that it is a quote mark.
 
KellysEye said:
Would you use CCA batteries for house batteries rather the deep cycle ones? It is a black and white issue.

>>P.S. Still struggling with those quotes, I see.

Can't see any reason to change it is clear that it is a quote mark.
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First of all, since you're evidently reading-impaired, I'll remind you of what I wrote earlier, which you chose to omit from the quote you lifted in post #12: "As suggested [by you, no less], true deep-cycle batteries are generally more suited to liveaboard life."

That highly material omission was either careless or devious. A less charitable person than I might think it the latter. But, since I think you're too stupid for that, I'll put it down to carelessness. Feel free to correct me if you wish.

Batteries, like most things on a boat, are compromises. What I would do is neither here nor there: my choice is based on factors that apply to me and my boat. You have not to foggiest notion of what these are nor what choice has resulted. Nor do you of anyone else's circumstances and set-up. This is why the dogmatism in which you specialise is so very misplaced, not to mention presumptuous. Words like "generally" just don't appear to be in your monochrome lexicon.

As to use of quotes, you evidently have no interest in making things clearer for your reader. So consistent, if nothing else.

No mention of the slander action, I see. Does this mean I'm off the hook? Phew!
 
KellysEye said:
>Ah, friend Kelly, with something else from his wonderful black-and-white world.

Would you use CCA batteries for house batteries rather the deep cycle ones? It is a black and white issue.
Click to expand...

That makes no sense at all, like asking -would you use a KM/H car to go to the shops?



>>P.S. Still struggling with those quotes, I see.

Can't see any reason to change it is clear that it is a quote mark.
Click to expand...

Lots of reason to change, it goes back to the days when the net was largely text based decades ago, things have moved on, there are much better options now like the quote button which not only gives much nicer formatting but adds a link to the quoted post as well. You're living in the eighties everyone else has moved on :rolleyes:
 
KellysEye said:
>Ah, friend Kelly, with something else from his wonderful black-and-white world.

Would you use CCA batteries for house batteries rather the deep cycle ones? It is a black and white issue.

>>P.S. Still struggling with those quotes, I see.

Can't see any reason to change it is clear that it is a quote mark.
Click to expand...

Oh dear, look what happens when i try to make a quoted reply to Kellys post.
 
KellysEye said:
Would you use CCA batteries for house batteries rather the deep cycle ones? It is a black and white issue.
Click to expand...

Never mind, i'll edit the quote manually lol.

I would and do use CCA batteries for a domestic bank. My electrics work perfectly with them. My solar array outputs far more power than i use and my batteries spend most of the day on float mode. They discharge during hours of darkness by about about 25ah, from a bank of 390ah, that's about 6% so my batteries are likely to last a very long time.

Why would i want to spend nearly three times as much money on batteries by buying Trojans ?
 
>First of all, since you're evidently reading-impaired, I'll remind you of what I wrote earlier, which you chose to omit from the quote you lifted in post #12: "As suggested [by you, no less], true deep-cycle batteries are generally more suited to liveaboard life."
 
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