Caernarfon Harbour Trust

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Major Catastrophe

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I have got my solicitors letter and will now pay the dues of £116.10 for my 6.3 metre boat. As usual I will put Chichester's rate for the same sized boat on the back of the cheque - £29.10.

I think more people this year have waited for the solicitor's letter before paying and it would be great if even more did it next year.

Caernarfon Harbour Trust is a relatively small area - Caernarfon Bay to Britannia Bridge, with about 26- 30 buoys and marks that I can identify.
 
Major Catastrophe said:
I have got my solicitors letter and will now pay the dues of £116.10 for my 6.3 metre boat. As usual I will put Chichester's rate for the same sized boat on the back of the cheque - £29.10.

I think more people this year have waited for the solicitor's letter before paying and it would be great if even more did it next year.

Caernarfon Harbour Trust is a relatively small area - Caernarfon Bay to Britannia Bridge, with about 26- 30 buoys and marks that I can identify.
Click to expand...

Paid mine as well........... erm the cheque (£171.00) is in the envelope but needs to be posted :-)
Perhaps you can start a refuse to pay society for the PD guys.
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I did read that some wealthy boat owners were taking CHT to court re the legitimacy of their charges. Lets hope it's true.

Tom
 
LittleShip said:
Paid mine as well........... erm the cheque (£171.00) is in the envelope but needs to be posted :-)
Perhaps you can start a refuse to pay society for the PD guys.
icon10.gif


I did read that some wealthy boat owners were taking CHT to court re the legitimacy of their charges. Lets hope it's true.

Tom
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Great, if you kept your boat in Chichester, it would cost you £75.50 a year.

I have been asked to head a pressure group, but up to now it has been difficult. But now I should be able to organise something.

Yes, I believe there is a group considering a legal representation and part of that I understand they want to conduct an audit of previous year's accounts.

Trouble is, I don't know who they are.

I have asked them for sight of their accounts, a list of the trustees and their emoluments and/or expenses and what they bring to the table in respect of boating experience or other skills, but they did not respond to my request via their solicitor for their accounts.. I hope they do have some experience of sailing in the Strait as I would be horrified that people can nod through increases in dues without any thought of the local impact.

I am told (heresay) that the trust has considerable assets and may even own the car park below Caernarfon Castle that generates a considerable income - a figure of £150,000 year was mentioned to me, but I cannot substantiate that.

I have also previously asked them, why there is no direct representative from Dinorwic Marina on the board of trustees, when it must represent one of the largest income generators in the trust's area.

I have heard that the trust is considering applying for charitable status, which I welcome as their accounts have to be made public and their costs scrutinised by the charity commission.......and me.

Most of all, I hope that charitable status will mean they will have to justify every trust member's role and the time they devote to its running.

But, I think we should put Caernarfon Harbour Trust's role into perspective. The Trust's area of responsibility is from Caernarfon bay up to the Britannia Bridge, a tiny area compared with Chichester. It has two marinas and a considerable number of moorings to collect fees from and can also charge for big ship pilotage from Caernarfon Bay to Puffin Island, which should not be a burden on leisure boaters.

Perhaps some clever chap would like to calculate how many buoys CHT actually has and if and when I eventually get sight of the accounts, I can work out the cost each one stands us.

There are six channel buoys in Caernarfon Bay, plus the Mussel Bank buoy, the light on Llanddwyn Island and the two cardinal marks off Llanddwyn.

How many buoys are there between Fort Belan and Britannia Bridge, including the change buoy and the four channel markers in the fairway into the River Seiont? At a rough guess I would say there are eight channel markers between those two points. Also there are the four 5 knot markers at Port Dinorwic.

I have a figure of 26 to 30 buoys and marks.

I wonder, in comparison, how many marks the Chichester Conservancy maintain?

What would be nice is if a representative of CHT came on here and justified the high cost of the harbour dues, compared with other harbours. There is a lot of disgruntlement about the fees, the secrecy and the lack of representation for leisure boaters.
 
Harbour Dues

Sent a cheque to cover 6 months as I was only in PD for just under 6 months before moving to Deganwy. Their reply was that they did not prorata the charges and followed this up with a demand for the full fee. It does seem a large expense for very little return. I've now paid the full amount but I'm not a happy bunny.

Let me know what support you need. Who knows, I might want to come back to the council estate when my current job finishes.

Bob (Seafisher)
 
Philiz said:
It might be a daft question but where do CHT get everyones details from? They certainly haven't asked me for mine. Might there have been a breach of the data protection act?
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The CHT used to make the marina bill for the dues on their behalf, I am not sure exactly, but I understand 'they fell out' and now CHT get the addresses on a typed sheet, so as not to infringe DPA as I specifically challenged that.

They do have the right to know what boats are in the marina and therefore fulfil their statutory duty as a harbour trust and collect the dues.

I am of the opinion that the fresh water dock is not subject to harbour dues ( I once had sight of a map showing the harbour boundaries and they included the outer harbour but the line went in front of the lock gates) and I have argued that if a boat does not move out of the dock during the harbour duty year - May to April - then they should not be subject to the dues, or everybody in the dock is charged as a visiting 'pleasure craft' and charged the daily rate, which is never enforced. ;)
 
Philiz said:
Major Catastrophe said:
I think more people this year have waited for the solicitor's letter before paying and it would be great if even more did it next year.
QUOTE]

Must admit I wimped out after the last 'reminder' letter :o
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Whimp ! :-p

Right Major get it organised, I quite fancy a little sport with some pencil necks :-)

Tom
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From Memory
13 Lateral marks (lit)
3 -------------- (unlit)
4 Cardinals
4 Special marks
2 ------------- (seasonal)
4 lateral marks (Caernarfon harbour entrance)
1 Diffuser
3 Fl WR Abermenai, Dinorwic marina, Llanddwyn
2 Fl G (vert) x 2 Landerne pier
Verts at Vic Dock
Verts at Caernarfon harbour bridge
Lights on Brittania bridge
Lights on Transits at bridge

Since 07 according to Caernarfon Harbour Trust's 'Notice To Mariners'
11 movements or alterations
Plus 4 'Notices'
IE
1---- Swimming race
2----- Works to walls at Dinorwic
3-----Works to Victoria dock
4----- Beware mussel beds at Moel Y Don

Now whether the monies paid by Pleasure boaters to maintain the above suffice or not I do not know
But I do know the current 'Seiont' maintenence vessel was a silly waste of money
Thats what craws when organisations like this blow funds.
OK, maybe someone from The Trust may argue differently
Maybe the funding came from elsewhere?

But as MajorCatastrophe says
Why do We not hear from a Representative of The Trust?
Maybe they are doing a Grand Fine Job?

I sit here with My invoice for fees
I await My Solicitors letter!:rolleyes:
 
Kawasaki said:
From Memory
13 Lateral marks (lit)
3 -------------- (unlit)
4 Cardinals
4 Special marks
2 ------------- (seasonal)
4 lateral marks (Caernarfon harbour entrance)
1 Diffuser
3 Fl WR Abermenai, Dinorwic marina, Llanddwyn
2 Fl G (vert) x 2 Landerne pier
Verts at Vic Dock
Verts at Caernarfon harbour bridge
Lights on Brittania bridge
Lights on Transits at bridge

Since 07 according to Caernarfon Harbour Trust's 'Notice To Mariners'
11 movements or alterations
Plus 4 'Notices'
IE
1---- Swimming race
2----- Works to walls at Dinorwic
3-----Works to Victoria dock
4----- Beware mussel beds at Moel Y Don

Now whether the monies paid by Pleasure boaters to maintain the above suffice or not I do not know
But I do know the current 'Seiont' maintenence vessel was a silly waste of money
Thats what craws when organisations like this blow funds.
OK, maybe someone from The Trust may argue differently
Maybe the funding came from elsewhere?

But as MajorCatastrophe says
Why do We not hear from a Representative of The Trust?
Maybe they are doing a Grand Fine Job?

I sit here with My invoice for fees
I await My Solicitors letter!:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

I was close as you have also listed 30 marks. How many does Chichester have? Mind you, if the Caernarfon Trust's fees were more reasonable, maybe there would be more people boating there and paying. I know of three people who have found other places to park their boats and all of them are on the other side of the bridge so they have no harbour dues to pay and can play in 'our' section for free.

At one time there was some talk of passing the current CHT duties over to Trinity House, or allow the council take over the responsibility and add a half penny to the council tax and attract more tourists, because the local economy could do with it.

I was under the impression that the lights on the Britannia Bridge were maintained by Rail Track, or whatever they are called now. Surely not even CHT is capable of hanging a man over the side 150 feet above water to change a bulb.

Your solicitor's letter should be with you by now.

Anyone got a picture of the trust's fine vessel?

I expect some sneak has reported this thread to the 'headmaster' by now. Expect wackings before the dorm lights are put out.
 
Dunno if 'they' sort the bulbs out on the Bridge
The deffo do the ones on the Transits.

Taslking about lights on Transits
I must remember to fix the port side brake light on me truck!
 
Major Catastrophe said:
or allow the council take over the responsibility and add a half penny to the council tax and attract more tourists, because the local economy could do with it.

Surely not even CHT is capable of hanging a man over the side 150 feet above water to change a bulb
Click to expand...

That's a good idea, stick it on the Council Tax and let the locals pay it! Kwackers can afford it ;)

Don't know if CHT dangle a man off the bridge, if they do, can it be the head of the trust and can I hold the rope please :)
 
If its any help for comparison I can tell you that my HM fees for Poole were £94.29 in 2009 for an 11 metre boat, and Poole Harbour has literally hundreds of buoys and markers to maintain, being one of the largest natural harbours in the world. £116 for a 6 metre covering such a (relatively) small area does seem to be way out of proportion.
 
strakeryrius said:
£116 for a 6 metre covering such a (relatively) small area does seem to be way out of proportion.
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We know. Hence our pathetic protest.

But, I think the tide is turning and more people are starting to ask awkward questions, but it would be better if we were asking CHT these awkward questions instead of each other.

Poole Harbour dues seem very reasonable:
The charge from 1st
April 2009 is as follows:-

Daily £0.78
Weekly £3.11
Monthly £6.22
Annual £9.53

Per metre including VAT.

This suggests that if Polyanna was on Poole harbour, they would have accepted a six month fee rather than charging him the full year.

Any more harbour dues I can reference?
 
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Major Catastrophe said:
Poole Harbour dues seem very reasonable:
The charge from 1st April 2009 is as follows:-

Daily £0.78
Weekly £3.11
Monthly £6.22
Annual £9.53

Per metre including VAT.
Click to expand...

And if you pay through your marina there is a further 10% discount off these prices as it reduces their costs of collection. Hence £94 pa for an 11 metre boat. Yours would be about £51 pa.
 
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