PhilipH
Well-Known Member
I am currently weighing up whether to go for C-Map and Simrad electronics or Navionics and Raymarine - has anyone seen a comparative review or got up-to-date info on relative performance?
C-Map or Navionics? Simrad or Raymarine?
- Thread starter PhilipH
- Start date
pvb
Well-Known Member
Depends what you want it for....
The choice really depends on what you want to do with the equipment. You don't say whether you just want a plotter or whether you also might want to include radar (perhaps at a later stage).
If you just want a plotter, there probably isn't much to choose between the two makes. They both have a range of screen sizes. Simrad has a special "SunView" optional screen which is supposed to be very good in direct sunlight. With the bigger screens, Raymarine's 12" screen (C120) has 800x600 resolution, whereas Simrad's 15" screen (CX54) only has 640x480 pixels. Raymarine's operating system is very user-friendly, with "soft keys" to help menu navigation. As far as the charts are concerned, there's not much difference between C-Map and Navionics (although the new C-Map MAX has some intriguing features, which will be largely mirrored by the forthcoming Navionics Platinum charts).
If you want (or might in the future want) radar as well, the choice has to be Raymarine. The C-series displays feature the ability to overlay the radar image on the chart, which gives a very useful display. The C-series also features MARPA, which is very impressive in operation.
Prices are fairly similar, so your decision revolves around what features you want. It would be worthwhile tracking down some demonstration units so you can see how easy it might be to use the different systems. Both makers also have downloadable owner manuals on their websites, and reading these will help to guide your choice.
I've just upgraded from a Navman Tracker 5600 plotter using C-Map to a Raymarine C-series radar/plotter using Navionics. I find the C-series very easy to use, and the features are certainly impressive. It was also very easy to install and set up - literally plug and play.
Hope this helps your choice.
The choice really depends on what you want to do with the equipment. You don't say whether you just want a plotter or whether you also might want to include radar (perhaps at a later stage).
If you just want a plotter, there probably isn't much to choose between the two makes. They both have a range of screen sizes. Simrad has a special "SunView" optional screen which is supposed to be very good in direct sunlight. With the bigger screens, Raymarine's 12" screen (C120) has 800x600 resolution, whereas Simrad's 15" screen (CX54) only has 640x480 pixels. Raymarine's operating system is very user-friendly, with "soft keys" to help menu navigation. As far as the charts are concerned, there's not much difference between C-Map and Navionics (although the new C-Map MAX has some intriguing features, which will be largely mirrored by the forthcoming Navionics Platinum charts).
If you want (or might in the future want) radar as well, the choice has to be Raymarine. The C-series displays feature the ability to overlay the radar image on the chart, which gives a very useful display. The C-series also features MARPA, which is very impressive in operation.
Prices are fairly similar, so your decision revolves around what features you want. It would be worthwhile tracking down some demonstration units so you can see how easy it might be to use the different systems. Both makers also have downloadable owner manuals on their websites, and reading these will help to guide your choice.
I've just upgraded from a Navman Tracker 5600 plotter using C-Map to a Raymarine C-series radar/plotter using Navionics. I find the C-series very easy to use, and the features are certainly impressive. It was also very easy to install and set up - literally plug and play.
Hope this helps your choice.
PhilipH
Well-Known Member
Re: Depends what you want it for....
Thanks for this.
I will have radar straightaway and both the Simrad CX44 and the Raymarine E80 provide for overlays. Also, Simrad are about to launch a new 17" 4kw radome which will fit nicely on the stern arch whereas Raymarine only do a 2kw radome at this dimension.
Thanks for this.
I will have radar straightaway and both the Simrad CX44 and the Raymarine E80 provide for overlays. Also, Simrad are about to launch a new 17" 4kw radome which will fit nicely on the stern arch whereas Raymarine only do a 2kw radome at this dimension.
pvb
Well-Known Member
Simrad CX44....
Think this proves that there's never a good time to buy electronics - it's a fast-moving market! The CX44 wasn't launched when I bought my C120, so I didn't have the specs to hand (and they don't seem to be on Simrad's website). If it does have a radar overlay on the chart, that puts it closer to the Raymarine, although I'd still suggest that MARPA is a valuable feature.
In terms of radomes, many people believe that a larger diameter is more important than greater power. Small diameter is a limiting factor for beam width and therefore target definition.
Think this proves that there's never a good time to buy electronics - it's a fast-moving market! The CX44 wasn't launched when I bought my C120, so I didn't have the specs to hand (and they don't seem to be on Simrad's website). If it does have a radar overlay on the chart, that puts it closer to the Raymarine, although I'd still suggest that MARPA is a valuable feature.
In terms of radomes, many people believe that a larger diameter is more important than greater power. Small diameter is a limiting factor for beam width and therefore target definition.
Andrew38
Well-Known Member
I've just been through exactly the same process.
In the end I bought Simrad CX44 and C-Map for the following reasons:
* Prices were pretty much identical but the Simrad has better sunview
screen even compared the the new E Raymarine system
* I've had Simrad before and their support has been very good
* The new C-Map Max cartridge seems to have many more features than before and the tidal directions and speeds promises to be a big move forward. The photographs of marinas also are also an advantage
* I can transfer routes and waypoints from PC Planner directly into the CX44
* The Simrad VHF DSC radio connects with the CX44 screen to show user messages and emergency positions
* The Raymarine E series is very deep and won't fit into some boats (i.e. Brooms)
I wanted MARPA but I reckon that having the tidal flows on screen should more than compensate
I can recommend the company that fitted my system if you want to send a PM I'll give you contact details
In the end I bought Simrad CX44 and C-Map for the following reasons:
* Prices were pretty much identical but the Simrad has better sunview
screen even compared the the new E Raymarine system
* I've had Simrad before and their support has been very good
* The new C-Map Max cartridge seems to have many more features than before and the tidal directions and speeds promises to be a big move forward. The photographs of marinas also are also an advantage
* I can transfer routes and waypoints from PC Planner directly into the CX44
* The Simrad VHF DSC radio connects with the CX44 screen to show user messages and emergency positions
* The Raymarine E series is very deep and won't fit into some boats (i.e. Brooms)
I wanted MARPA but I reckon that having the tidal flows on screen should more than compensate
I can recommend the company that fitted my system if you want to send a PM I'll give you contact details
Oldhand
Well-Known Member
Having recently bought C-Map cartography and being very underwhelmed by it, I compared the problems I saw with C-Map directly with Navionics for the same area. Navionics Gold addressed all my concerns with C-Map except for one minor one, which means I would definitley recommend Navionics over C-Map, which in turn indicates Raymarine over Simrad.
I'm not sure why you should be at all concerned at only putting a 2kW radome on an arch rather than a 4kW radome. At that height a 4kW radome will give you very little advantage if it has the same "aperture" as the 2kW unit. I have a Raymarine 2kW radome and can get an echo form the Portsmouth Spinnaker Tower from Lymington, 18nm range partly over land with my boat in a marina berth surrounded by masts. I think that is pretty good performance. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
I'm not sure why you should be at all concerned at only putting a 2kW radome on an arch rather than a 4kW radome. At that height a 4kW radome will give you very little advantage if it has the same "aperture" as the 2kW unit. I have a Raymarine 2kW radome and can get an echo form the Portsmouth Spinnaker Tower from Lymington, 18nm range partly over land with my boat in a marina berth surrounded by masts. I think that is pretty good performance. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
PhilipH
Well-Known Member
As a new user this is just so helpful and thanks to all for taking the time to share info and views.
Here's a bit more contextual info. The aim is to sail south, turn right and keep going until we end up back where we started (at some undefined point in time). This means that we need charts for lots of out of the way places and I understand (doesn't mean I'm right) that C-Map has better global coverage than Navionics which is strong in North America and Europe.
As far as radar distance is concerned, the greater the better, a large vessel doing 30kts in a head on situation will be on top of us in just over 30 mins if the range is 18nm - not long in the middle of the night. Simrad also now have Automatic Tracking Aid (ATA) which I think does the same things as MARPA.
The other features mentioned re Simrad are also attractive and they appear to come in a more robust case. However, I am concerned about the comments re ease of use and intuitiveness. So the jury is still out.
Here's a bit more contextual info. The aim is to sail south, turn right and keep going until we end up back where we started (at some undefined point in time). This means that we need charts for lots of out of the way places and I understand (doesn't mean I'm right) that C-Map has better global coverage than Navionics which is strong in North America and Europe.
As far as radar distance is concerned, the greater the better, a large vessel doing 30kts in a head on situation will be on top of us in just over 30 mins if the range is 18nm - not long in the middle of the night. Simrad also now have Automatic Tracking Aid (ATA) which I think does the same things as MARPA.
The other features mentioned re Simrad are also attractive and they appear to come in a more robust case. However, I am concerned about the comments re ease of use and intuitiveness. So the jury is still out.
smurfer
Well-Known Member
I would go for Raymarine any day, I have tried both extensively and Raymarine’s interface is so good when the going gets tough it makes a real difference, I have both Navionics and C-Map on a C-Series display and a laptop plotter and both have there strong points, don’t make you decision on the map source as these are changing all the time, go for the best equipment for the boating you do.
pvb
Well-Known Member
Radar range is more complicated than that...
Just because a radome is called "18 mile" or "24 mile" doesn't mean it'll see that far on a boat.
You can work out radar range roughly by taking the square root of the scanner height in feet and multiplying it by 1.2 - the result gives the range in miles. So a scanner on your stern arch at say 9ft above the water can "see" 3.6 miles (3 x 1.2). This is the radar horizon. If there's a ship over the radar horizon, your radar will theoretically see it at a distance calculated in the same way.
Let's assume there's a ship over the radar horizon. Say it's 81 feet high. The ship will theoretically be visible when it's 9 x 1.2 = 10.8 miles the other side of the radar horizon.
So the scanner on the post at 9ft high will detect the ship at 14.4miles (3.6 + 10.8). This is regardless of the power of the radome.
Even putting the scanner up the mast doesn't help much. Say the scanner's on the mast at 25ft high; its radar horizon is 6.0 miles (5 x 1.2) and it'll detect the ship at 16.8miles (6.0 + 10.8).
So buying a "24 mile" radome won't help much unless you can put it very high up the mast.
Just because a radome is called "18 mile" or "24 mile" doesn't mean it'll see that far on a boat.
You can work out radar range roughly by taking the square root of the scanner height in feet and multiplying it by 1.2 - the result gives the range in miles. So a scanner on your stern arch at say 9ft above the water can "see" 3.6 miles (3 x 1.2). This is the radar horizon. If there's a ship over the radar horizon, your radar will theoretically see it at a distance calculated in the same way.
Let's assume there's a ship over the radar horizon. Say it's 81 feet high. The ship will theoretically be visible when it's 9 x 1.2 = 10.8 miles the other side of the radar horizon.
So the scanner on the post at 9ft high will detect the ship at 14.4miles (3.6 + 10.8). This is regardless of the power of the radome.
Even putting the scanner up the mast doesn't help much. Say the scanner's on the mast at 25ft high; its radar horizon is 6.0 miles (5 x 1.2) and it'll detect the ship at 16.8miles (6.0 + 10.8).
So buying a "24 mile" radome won't help much unless you can put it very high up the mast.
PhilipH
Well-Known Member
Re: Radar range is more complicated than that...
This is very helpful and showing up my complete lack of knowledge. Still, lifelong learning .......
This is very helpful and showing up my complete lack of knowledge. Still, lifelong learning .......
Mike21
Well-Known Member
Re: c-map or Navionics
Might be worth considering Furuno, they have a new chartplotter/radar coming out which can use either c-map or navionics charts( although not sure if you have to specify which system you wish to use). Believe their prices are very good
Might be worth considering Furuno, they have a new chartplotter/radar coming out which can use either c-map or navionics charts( although not sure if you have to specify which system you wish to use). Believe their prices are very good
powerskipper
Well-Known Member
Re: Radar range is more complicated than that...
It depends on what kind of info you want, if you want the all singing all dancing stuff get the latest, if you like to refer to charts, [you should do this as well, instructor hat on for mo] go for the older ones, but do note they have changed the areas covered recently, so to cover the whole south coast now takes 2 wide charts but they have dropped the price, decide what area you will want to cruise in and then see what they have to offer you.
It depends on what kind of info you want, if you want the all singing all dancing stuff get the latest, if you like to refer to charts, [you should do this as well, instructor hat on for mo] go for the older ones, but do note they have changed the areas covered recently, so to cover the whole south coast now takes 2 wide charts but they have dropped the price, decide what area you will want to cruise in and then see what they have to offer you.
MapisM
Well-Known Member
Re: Radar range is more complicated than that...
Interesting point, I never thought about that. Just a bit theoretical imho.
I've got a 36 nm radar, but never used it at max range, unless for checking thuderstorms.
Which works nicely regardless of radome height, obviously...
Interesting point, I never thought about that. Just a bit theoretical imho.
I've got a 36 nm radar, but never used it at max range, unless for checking thuderstorms.
Which works nicely regardless of radome height, obviously...
