Buying new sails -help

[john_travers]

Need new sails for a Fulmar. Main & Roller reefing Genoa for cruising. Have got quotes from various sailmakers with sailcloth samples. Difference in price so far cheapest to most expensive over £300. Sailcloth samples show weights presumably in oz/yd. The most expensive appears to be the lightest weight but is a material I have heard of. Dimension Polyant. Is it the case of "you get what you pay for" . i.e. Cheap sails use cheap material . I was also told by an old salt "dont bother with biradial & foam luff". If you need to roll it away you are probably up to hull speed anyway. Just accept you might heel a bit more and not point as high.
All advice gratefully received.

 

[Gunfleet]

I just bought a radial, foam luff genoa and it's made a terrific difference to the way the sail sets and the turn of speed I can get out of my boat. It points miles higher, so much so I started to doubt the evidence of my own eyes (along the lines of, it can't be that good). But it was. Downwind, I have to admit there was no difference, but we need to be above force 4 before my boat gets going downwind anyway. See if you can get a sail on a boat with a newish radial genoa. You may be in for a surprise.

 

[Chris_Stannard]

Dacron is widely used for sails and Bainbridge cloth is very good. If you get a light weight sail it may be limited to a wind strength even when rolled. If you are not racing then I would suggest durability is more important than out an out performance. I like radial cut sails and my roller has a foam luff which makes it roll much better.

Try Kemps at Wareham, they do good sails and are not expensive and will run through your requirements and then come up with recommendations.

Chris Stannard

 

[andy_wilson]

Kemps at Wareham got my business for the fores'l. Talked lots of sense, including in the price dept. Twin foam strips at the front.

Got a new main from Sanders in Lymington. Full top batten, elongated lowers, soft lens foot, sets well, responds to the trim controls (mine is also a Fulmar), sails flat and pulls like a train.

 

[david_e]

The sail market is well developed and competitive enough for the price/quality markers to be set. If you want better performance then the radial sail with foam luff will give it. It is likley that new fresh cross cut dacron sails will feel good compared to old blown out ones. Is it worth an extra £300 to get alot more pleasure from your sailing, only a question you can answer. It might be worth getting quotes from the top end of the market so you can see what you really pay can pay for! Sailmakers are pretty helpful and the various websites contain lots of useful info. When you get a quote, many have spread sheets set up which will give prices across the whole range, so you can glean even more info.

With a Fulmar it is a good idea to opt for a radial cut, better to get a mylar material sail to get the best shape and weight combination. Have you thought about a fully battened main with Rutgerson roller bearing cars and u/j's on the batten ends, simply glides up and down into a stack pack which you zip away in seconds, well worth the extra.

On the other hand, good quality performance dacron will do the job adequately, can not comment on the performance difference when reefed but would presume the better sail will have a better shape.

 

[steffen]

I know of two large sail cloth makers: Contender and Dimension (probably many others that i dont know of).
You really need to look at www.uksailmakers.com/encyclopedia.html which gives a wealth of info about sail buying and sail cloth (and sail trimming).
Also www.contendersailcloth.com and www.dimension-polyant.com/intro.html for more info in cloth.

Remember that lighter cloth is not always weaker and certainly not always cheaper. The important parameter is the number of yarns per inch (or cm) for the warp and the fill.

I recently ordered a new roller furling genoa, have chosen for cross cut as i am just cruising so dont need top performance but with luff foam to enable neat furling.

Happy sailings, Steffen

 

[SimonD]

I'm about to place an order with Kemps on the basis of their quick response to enquiry, good informational material, sensible telephone discussions and reasonable price plus 10% discount for orders before end of October. Also recommended by members of this forum!

 

[Twister_Ken]

Beware of radial cut genoas

A couple of people below have said go for radial. If you are in for a bit of racing, or a very keen on performance, or don't mind replacing sails a little more frequently, then that's good advice. I was almost decided on radial but on doing some research concluded:.

To perform well, over time, a radial needs to be built from a laminated cloth. Although laminates have improved enormously in longevity terms, compared with even a few years back, they still won't last as long as a good quality dacron (and for the equivalent price of a laminate, you can afford a top quality dacron). Also there is a doubt that laminates are more susceptible to mildew, if put away wet; and they need more care in folding, etc.

A radial which is built in dacron rather than laminate is likely to stretch especially in the panels radiating from the clew, along the cloth but not along the seams. Therefore you'll end up with a slightly corrugated look.

If you want good dacron, the current mass market best is called Marblehead, which will cost more than Polyant - which itself is already pretty good. FWIW I chose a Marblehead x-cut from Jeckells in the end (no racing aspirations left!) in the expectation that the sail will retain its shape over many years.

A good place to read the basics of sail marketing is:

http://macksails.com/sailclth.htm

One more consideration regarding the genoa is that we expect roller furlers to perform across a very broad spectrum of conditions. Sailmakers therefore have to optimise them for a range of windspeeds, and outside that range they are compromised in performance terms. Usually the optimum performance comes in the range we like most - F2-F4. In stronger winds a rolled sail will be less efficient, and overstressed. Therefore, if you can do it, consider adding a detachable inner forestay on which you can hoist a working jib (or slightly smaller) in winds from F5 upwards, so that you can roll away the genoa and protect it in these circumstances. This might also allow the sailmaker to build the genoa slighly lighter, which will increase its performance in light airs.

 

[bedouin]

The best advice is to find a good sailmaker and talk through your requirements with him - if you can look for one who is experienced making sails for your boat (i.e. talk to other Fulmar owners and see where they buy their sails). When you talk to them in detail they should be able to tell you the advantages/disadvantages of the different types of cloth they can use, and the costs of each - the more information you can give them the better they can help you.

For your application, most seem to recommend that cross-cut dacron is better than radial, as well as being cheaper. Similarly most do not recommend a foam luff.

However, in general asking a single sail to perform well from light winds to F8/9 is asking the impossible. Why not consider having two genoas? A flatter cut no 2 or no 3 will work much better in stronger winds, and will reef much better (being flatter cut) than a No 1 can.

 

[davel]

You might find <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.uksailmakers.com/encyclopedia.html>this site </A>a useful reference

Dave L.

 

[surekandoo]

I'd reccomend Kemps too. Did a cracking new mainsail 2 years ago for a Jaguar 25 I partowned. Improved the balance and performance markedly.

I'm just about to send the sails of my current vessel to Kemps for overhaul.

Speak to Rob Kemp, he's your man.

 

[AvanLoon]

Dear John,
Most of the replies mention they should or have chosen foam luff for better rolling of the genoa. But, which brand an type of roller has been put on your boat? Actually, there are some types of furlers who make one turn in the roller (and takes the underside of the sail with it, and after that turns the the whole height. As a result, the sail is flattened first, and then rolled in. Look for instance at Furlex, but other brands have this trick too. This avoides the drawback of the foam, that gets compressed after one or some seasons, and produces no effect afterwards.
Apart from that, a read some months ago in this magazine about thin pieces of rope to roll in with the sail. This doesn't get compressed, and can be replaced if needed. You can shape such sets of rope by trial and error, so a satisfactoring flattend sail can be rached (I think....!)

 

[john_travers]

Many thanks for all the information and suggestions. As usual opinions are divided. However Kemp do get a lot of votes and on the basis of their currently discounted price and excellent information pack I am tempted to go with them. It has been suggested I should carry 2 headsails, a number 1for “normal” conditions and perhaps a number 3 for when the wind pipes up. I know that’s good advice but once our headsail is hoisted at the beginning of the season it doesn’t come down until the end!