Buying in the US - documentation and registration?

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integrale44

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I'm planning next year to buy a late sixties S&S yacht in Boston (I know the boat) and spend a while exploring the Eastern coast down to Bermuda eventually then back to Europe eventually.. although properly back to the UK for any length of time.

What I haven't yet been able to find out is what are the issues with registration - the boat will lose it's US registration when I buy it - but can I register it as a UK vessel, or what are the options or best ways to go?
 
Buying a boat in the US

Hi,

We bought Kite in 2007 in Long Island, although through a broker based in Rhode Island so no sales tax! I organised de-registration via a legal company and flew over to the US with SSR registration already done. Fairly easy - can do it on line.
Then you can sail to your hearts content under the red ensign. Returning to the UK you will be liable for VAT but not import tax as the boat is over the age limit. We sorted the VAT out in the Azores (Mid Atlantic Yacht Services - Horta, Faial) Again this can be sorted on line. VAT level is slightly lower but less daunting than UK. The customs peeps tend to decide what they think the boat is worth!

Hope this helps

CP
 
Thanks for that,

Sounds strangely straightforward, maybe that's why I couldn't find anything online... I take it that VAT is due wherever the boat re-enters Europe?
 
Technically it's the first port of call within the EU but nobody will pounce on you straightaway! After 2 years I did get a visit from HM Customs & Excise who enquired politely about my paperwork. Then got a letter from the buggers asking for copies of VAT registration etc.

My own fault really as I still have Greenport, NY on the stern!!!
 
integrale44 said:
Thanks for that,

Sounds strangely straightforward, maybe that's why I couldn't find anything online... I take it that VAT is due wherever the boat re-enters Europe?
Click to expand...

Think you will find that the boat will also need to gain a CE mark which means it will have to comply with the RCD before it can be imported and used legally in the EU. This is almost impossible to achieve if you are looking for category A (Ocean) on a 1970s boat. Suggest you seek advice from the RYA before you commit.
 
Is there a CE exemption for older boats imported for personal use only.?

Alternatively, if you stay in the US can the boat remain US registered with a UK owner?

I do think about buying a US boat for cruising the east coast..
 
Tranona said:
Think you will find that the boat will also need to gain a CE mark which means it will have to comply with the RCD before it can be imported and used legally in the EU. This is almost impossible to achieve if you are looking for category A (Ocean) on a 1970s boat. Suggest you seek advice from the RYA before you commit.
Click to expand...

The RYA website has a comprehensive pdf document about RCD compliance. Your main interest will be whether the boat is excepted in some way. The grounds for this are:

"A boat does not need to comply with the RCD if:-
It is one of the exclusions listed in Appendix 2
It was built in the EEA prior to 16 June 1998
It was in use in the EEA prior to 16 June 1998
It is only visiting the EEA for reasons of tourism or in transit (time scales are undefined)"

[Appendix 2 concerns self-build, historic and other oddballs and will probably not apply.]
Note that this is a EEA (European Economic Area) issue, not EU.

In practice RCD only seems to become an issue if a vessel is "offered for sale" in EEA. Can't imagine the VAT man gives a stuff.

You could always register the boat on Isle of Man (non-EEA, so no RCD required: the bloke I spoke with in IoM regisry had never heard of RCD). Mine is registered there (since that's my home), and it gives no paperwork bother in Europe. Technically, lack of RCD would mean the vessel couldn't subsequently be sold in EEA, but in practice there is complete freedom of trade between IoM and UK and it occurs to no-one to even ask about RCD.

Anomalously, IoM is part of the EU VAT area, so IoM reg wouldn't cause any VAT issues.
 
EEA

Note that the EEA also includes certain islands in the Caribbean (?) so if you can prove your boat visited one of them pre 1998 then you are exempt. I very carefully keep a sticker on a porthole proving the previous owner was there. I know, its a bit week so I also had a supporting affidavit signed by the vendor

Otherwise i agree with everything above. The Customs in the Azores are very flexible as to valuations, especially if you use a local agent. (nuf said)
 
RCD is nothing to do with VAT or registration (there is no legal requirement to register a boat in the UK)

The law is quite clear that any boat put into service in the EU has to have a CE mark, and therefore comply with the RCD for the category it is assessed for. The law is enforced by Trading Standards as it is primarily aimed at commercial activities.

As the extract from the RYA information posted above suggests, if a boat is not exempt - and this is all boats built outside the EEA unless they were in the EEA on the qualifying date need to meet the RCD to be used legally. It would be almost impossible to get a 1970's boat to comply with the RCD so this effectively prohibits their importation - although a non resident can use the boat in the EU for a limited period with significant restrictions.

What is unclear is how rigourously this law is enforced as there are clearly boats in use that do not comply with the law. It is possible to have the boat classified in Category D which requires very little. The issue then arises when the boat is sold - whether it is not certified (and therefore illegal) or an "ocean going" yacht certified only for use on inland waterways!

These difficulties perhaps explain why, despite the often substantial difference in price very few boats find their way from the USA to Europe for permanent importation and use..
 
If the boat was in the EEA before the qualifying date then you need to have proof of this and you need to get an exemption certificate. Then you can put the boat into service in the EU.

The Bahamas and the Turks & Caicos Islands are two EEA areas where pre-1998 US boats may well have visited. Best proof is the original clearing-in document stamped and signed.
If I were looking to buy a boat in the US with the intention of eventually bringing it back to Europe I'd look on the US east coast for one that qualified, there must be many such boats around.

Keeping a boat in the USA just means you have to state register it, rules are very simple. Of course, the boat's right to remain in the USA and your own are not connected! You need the appropriate visa or visa waiver when you visit your boat.
Once you leave the USA to go cruising down island remember that you can't get back into the US on your boat, or visit any US islands on it, without a valid US visa. Visa waiver doesn't apply to arrival by pleasure boat.
 
Thanks Guys, very helpful.

The main restriction seems to be on selling in the EU, as I'm not intending this and will plan to move on and not keep the boat longterm here maybe it's not such an issue. I'm also not planning on chartering her!

IOM sounds like a sensible way forward, keeping all the options open. Residence on the island isn't a factor?

I presume that the boat could be registered almost anywhere, but I would be happier to have a red duster flying behind me...
 
Sorry Salty John, I replied before reading your post - very clear, and thanks for pointing out the need for a visa to me rather than the boat when island hoppin!
 
Before you leave the USA you should register your boat on the UK Small Ships Register using your UK address and fly the red ensign. I had no problem clearing in anywhere with this documentation.
While you're state registered in the USA you can fly the Jolly Roger for all anyone cares!
 
Registration is not a problem if you qualify as a UK resident, although the boat may be limited in where it can be kept.

It does not matter whether you intend to sell it or not. It has to meet the RCD to USE it legally in the EU unless it is exempt.

As noted above it seems unclear how rigorously this is applied on privately imported boats - but it is a criminal offence so I guess it is up to you and your attitude to the law whether you comply!

And in case you think this is all unfair, many other countries apply restrictions on the permanent import of boats (cars, bikes, planes etc), new or secondhand, both commercially and privately.
 
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Importing boat from US - RCD issues

I would like to point out that (IMHO) the RCD is a total load of b*llocks! I went through this process and after being relieved of several thousand pounds had the following "improvements" to my boat:

1. Fuel filler caps changed from "FUEL" to "DIESEL"
2. Stickers on my AC panel warning of DANGER - HIGH VOLTAGE"
3. Fwd cabin hatch modified to allow it to be opened from on deck (Thus reducing security in port!)
4. Glass Racor fuel filter housings had to be changed to metal ones

I thank the good Lord for the RCD - it has made my boat so much more safe!!!

At least I won't make the mistake of filling up with petrol!!!!! Duh!

May all EU bureaucrats and red tape wallahs roast very slowly in hell.



CP
 
integrale44 said:
IOM sounds like a sensible way forward, keeping all the options open. Residence on the island isn't a factor?

I presume that the boat could be registered almost anywhere, but I would be happier to have a red duster flying behind me...
Click to expand...

There are two types of Manx registration. One, for leisure boats, is compulsory for IoM-based boats. It's simple, but only open to residents. It's roughly equivalent to UK SSR. If you know anyone (well) on IoM, it's legit to jointly own the vessel and for them to put it on the registry. So far as I know, the proportion they might own isn't specified. Could be 0.1%?

The other reg is equivalent to UK Part 1 and available to anyone, world-wide. Like Part 1, registering is more labourious and costly than the leisure registration. Further info at www.gov.im/ded/shipregistry/

In either case ensign would be a red duster defaced with three-legged Manx symbol.
 
All very interesting, but is irrelevant in relation to compliance with the law on RCD and paying VAT if the boat is imported into the EU by an EU resident.
 
S&S designs are certainly fine yachts but you could avoid the RCD issue by buying a yacht that was built in the UK (or other EEA country) and exported to the USA. The late 1970s and 1980s were good years for US buyers to look to the UK, when the pound was weak against the dollar.

Foe example, if you are looking at a S&S34, why not consider a Rival 34 or Rival 32? You will find four for sale in the US right now on yachtworld.com.
 
Looks interesting - however there is a big choice of 34's in the UK between £25-30k and the ones in the US are £17-20k. Add VAT and buying cost and the difference disappears - even assuming they are in comparable condition.
 
Part of the attraction for me is being able to cruise the Eastern US without having to take them boat over in the first place, and that I know this particular one.

Half of me is rather tempted to take it down to Florida, and turn right, go through the Panama Canal and go over to the Pacific - an absolute sailing dream of mine for many years... and leave all this ridiculous RCD nonsense behind.

It does also raise the point - supposing I did this, and kept going till I got round again to Europe. On what particular grounds would the authorities decree that the boat isn't safe to be used in European waters, having gone most of the way round the world already? If it was a state registered US boat, I guess I would be ok - as long as I didn't "import" it, and was just stopping off for a bit of a rest(?)

I can't remember who has the signature "If I wanted to live in a banana republic..."
 
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