Buying in Denmark

[jon and michie]

Hi - I have been looking at a number of boats in Denmark and would like to know if there is anything to be aware of and any advice / tips ?
Ie - Is it similar to buying in the UK - Do you pay the Broker a % of the sale like in Italy etc etc.

Many Thanks for any help given
Jon

 

[piratos]

Hi - I have been looking at a number of boats in Denmark and would like to know if there is anything to be aware of and any advice / tips ?
Ie - Is it similar to buying in the UK - Do you pay the Broker a % of the sale like in Italy etc etc.

Many Thanks for any help given
Jon

Hi.
Normally the Seller pay the brokerate fee.
He is the one who made the contract with the broker.

 

[roa312]

Hi Jon,

As Piratos mentioned above, in Denmark, it is the seller who pays the brokerage fee, even though it is implicitly you who pays through the purchase price!

Here are a few things you should be aware of when buying a boat in Denmark:

• If you are very interested in a particular boat, I would advise you to first have some email correspondence and phone conversations with the broker/seller before coming over. Make sure they know that you are serious about making a deal and traveling from the UK to see/inspect/test the boat before submitting an offer. The reason for this is that sellers today unfortunately have to deal with many people who have nothing to do on weekends and are hoping for a quick test ride, etc.
• Just like anywhere else in the world, you are responsible for conducting a proper inspection of the boat before purchase. Therefore, it is always wise to have a professional survey of the boat and engine (both on land and in water). The seller should always accept this, but this process usually takes place after the purchase price has been agreed upon, with reservations for any discoveries that may be made.
• You should, of course, be free to bring your own surveyor from the UK, but you can also engage locals (Swedes/Germans will typically also be willing to travel). I would advise that you contact the local dealer of the model you are interested in and ask if they can refer you to their local surveyor. If that isn't an option, then I would suggest you call one of the larger dealers/brokerages and ask them instead (Princess Denmark, Tempobaade, etc.). These places have their own staff and may be able to arrange something for you.
• I believe that the majority of DK-to-DK boat transactions typically applies the contract template from the Danish Sailing Union (link), although that may not be true for very high value boats. Some brokers develop their own contracts which is often just a rip-off of the DSU one. You can translate the contract in Google to get an understanding - it's a simple and basic format. You can suggest another contract and hope that the seller accepts.
• Regarding reservation of ownership, attachment, pledges, mortgages: Unfortunately, the Danish registers for this are not very well developed (link and link), but you can and should check if the boat can be found here (Danish ship register is only for boats with weight > 20 tonnes). You can search for the boat name as well as the sellers name, personal address, personal registration number. You can also request that the seller provides a bank guarantee of any claim up to the value of the boat, which should be doable. I think there's another active thread on a potential purchase in Italy, and you may be able to find more advice on this matter there. It is up to you to consider if engaging a legal advisor would be prudent or not, and they may make other suggestions. This is more common for expensive boats, and if that's the territory you are in, then I would again suggest that you contact Princess Denmark (link) as they have many high-value transactions and will know the good local advisors.

I hope that was a little bit helpful!

 

[benjenbav]

Hi Jon,

As Piratos mentioned above, in Denmark, it is the seller who pays the brokerage fee, even though it is implicitly you who pays through the purchase price!

Here are a few things you should be aware of when buying a boat in Denmark:

• If you are very interested in a particular boat, I would advise you to first have some email correspondence and phone conversations with the broker/seller before coming over. Make sure they know that you are serious about making a deal and traveling from the UK to see/inspect/test the boat before submitting an offer. The reason for this is that sellers today unfortunately have to deal with many people who have nothing to do on weekends and are hoping for a quick test ride, etc.
• Just like anywhere else in the world, you are responsible for conducting a proper inspection of the boat before purchase. Therefore, it is always wise to have a professional survey of the boat and engine (both on land and in water). The seller should always accept this, but this process usually takes place after the purchase price has been agreed upon, with reservations for any discoveries that may be made.
• You should, of course, be free to bring your own surveyor from the UK, but you can also engage locals (Swedes/Germans will typically also be willing to travel). I would advise that you contact the local dealer of the model you are interested in and ask if they can refer you to their local surveyor. If that isn't an option, then I would suggest you call one of the larger dealers/brokerages and ask them instead (Princess Denmark, Tempobaade, etc.). These places have their own staff and may be able to arrange something for you.
• I believe that the majority of DK-to-DK boat transactions typically applies the contract template from the Danish Sailing Union (link), although that may not be true for very high value boats. Some brokers develop their own contracts which is often just a rip-off of the DSU one. You can translate the contract in Google to get an understanding - it's a simple and basic format. You can suggest another contract and hope that the seller accepts.
• Regarding reservation of ownership, attachment, pledges, mortgages: Unfortunately, the Danish registers for this are not very well developed (link), but you can and should check if the boat can be found here (typically only for boats with a weight > 5 tonnes). You can search for the boat as well as the sellers name or personal address. You can also request that the seller provides a bank guarantee of any claim up to the value of the boat, which should be doable. I think there's another active thread on a potential purchase in Italy, and you may be able to find more advice on this matter there. It is up to you to consider if engaging a legal advisor would be prudent or not, and they may make other suggestions. This is more common for expensive boats, and if that's the territory you are in, then I would again suggest that you contact Princess Denmark (link) as they have many high-value transactions and will know the good local advisors.

I hope that was a little bit helpful!

That looks amazingly helpful. If you don’t mind my asking, what is the typical duration of the bank guarantees that you mention? 12 months? If they’re in general use I’m guessing that they’re not (too) ruinously priced.

 

[roa312]

That looks amazingly helpful. If you don’t mind my asking, what is the typical duration of the bank guarantees that you mention? 12 months? If they’re in general use I’m guessing that they’re not (too) ruinously priced.

I believe that most bank guarantees are issued for 12-months, and I don't know why exactly (longer is obviously better). To be clear, I don't think that having a bank guarantee issued is the standard approach and I would doubt that any DK banks have standard pricing for boats. I believe this can be a benefit as people tend to have all their engagements (personal and corporate) with the same institution and their personal bank advisor can have the authority to issue/process the guarantee with no particular hassle. So maybe you can be lucky and get this cheap. However, in that case the guarantee probably doesn't hold much value whereas if the seller has engagements all over the place, then you are probably looking at a high fee (for higher value in return). In Denmark, people generally finance boat purchases by re-mortgaging their personal homes as that is much cheaper/easier compared to direct financing, so this whole topic is really very rarely an issue - I've never heard of anyone who had issues with this. But of course there can be rare exceptions.

I read up on the rules regarding liens and mortgages in boats and I note that the ship registry is only for boats exceeding 20 tonnes so I will edit my answer above accordingly with a link to the registry for 'moveable' assets as well.

 

[benjenbav]

I believe that most bank guarantees are issued for 12-months, and I don't know why exactly (longer is obviously better). To be clear, I don't think that having a bank guarantee issued is the standard approach and I would doubt that any DK banks have standard pricing for boats. I believe this can be a benefit as people tend to have all their engagements (personal and corporate) with the same institution and their personal bank advisor can have the authority to issue/process the guarantee with no particular hassle. So maybe you can be lucky and get this cheap. However, in that case the guarantee probably doesn't hold much value whereas if the seller has engagements all over the place, then you are probably looking at a high fee (for higher value in return). In Denmark, people generally finance boat purchases by re-mortgaging their personal homes as that is much cheaper/easier compared to direct financing, so this whole topic is really very rarely an issue - I've never heard of anyone who had issues with this. But of course there can be rare exceptions.

I read up on the rules regarding liens and mortgages in boats and I note that the ship registry is only for boats exceeding 20 tonnes so I will edit my answer above accordingly with a link to the registry for 'moveable' assets as well.

Thanks. I suspect that any issue that would result in a claim by a buyer against a seller would be likely to manifest itself in the first 12 months. It becomes increasingly difficult to prove causation as time passes. And my experience with guarantees is that banks tend to require annual renewal fees if they are going to continue to provide the guarantee.

 

[jon and michie]

@roa312 and @piratos many thanks for your replies in a short space of time and looks like it covers everything to know.
Many thanks again
Jon

 

[stearman65]

You need to take into account the UK is no longer in the EU & Denmark is. So VAT & other charges may apply. I was considering buying in Denmark last year, luckily I have a couple of sailing buddies Vagn & Annie who live in Copenhagen. I was going to ask them to look over a boat before I travelled. In the end I didn't.

 

[ChromeDome]

Also be aware that the role of a broker in Denmark is different to that in the UK,

Many of those posing as brokers are plain click baits, putting up ads on the internet and not much more. No ABYA or equal.
Hence, many boats are sold privately. Actually works pretty well, TBH.

If a loan has been taken out on a boat, there are registers and it is easier to check in Denmark than in most other countries.

And the EU matter is a fact for any goods or services passing borders.

Shout if you need a pair of eyes over here