Buying abroad

[pheran]

May I dip a first tentative toe in and consult the oracles of this learned forum please?

Having spent many years cruising in the UK and the near Continent, we are now intending to give the European inland waterways a go, living aboard for 7or 8 months a year. We have made our minds up about the type of boat we want - modern, steel, single engine, thrusters, 13-15 metres, large gennie etc (all comments on this spec gratefully received of course) But what about the buying process, probably in Holland

- is the procedure the same as here ie thro' a broker but with a contract with the
owner? Is there a recognise procedured for establishing title?

- what are the legal niceities in Holland? Is a Notary or some such involved?

- are prices there firm or are offers expected as here?

- are Dutch surveyors 'reliable' or should I plan to engage someone from UK?

- assuming VAT was paid at the initial purchase, are there any tax implications if I
decide to keep the boat in Holland 'permanently' rather than just 'visit'

- any problems with reflagging the boat and putting on the SSR?


Sorry to have gone on but I am sure there are many more quetions I will need to ask!!

Thanks in advance.

 

[byron]

Amazing! I am impressed, I never knew you could read and write Chris /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

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[hlb]

UUww! and some one that can spell as well. Come in here We all need a little help.

<font color=red> No one can force me to come here-----------
----- I'm a Volunteer! /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

Haydn

 

[pheran]

I suppose you thought my extraordinary good looks were enough of a gift from Nature, didn't you Old Friend

 

[byron]

Warning - Pheran

This new poster Pheran has got to be watched carefully. Despite what he might tell you he is no good in bed, in fact take a pin with you if you sleep with him because he just lays there, either that or give him some Slippers to try on while you are doing him. I will agree about his good looks, he looks great in a Ballerina's TouTou it sets his beard off wonderfully.
Gawd! someone answer his original question (or as he spells it 'quetion') then maybe he will go away, we can well do without his grubby wit in here, it will offend the sensitive ones amongst us /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

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[oldgit]

Had a very extensive look round in Holland/Belgium a year or so ago.Found all brokers very helpfull and welcoming.Sales seem to carried out in a very similar way to over here.Boats tend to bit bit cheaper on the continent and although I finally purchased my boat in the hamble area .A couple quick trips through the tunnel for the day is time well spent.

Just hold tight dear it will not be so rough when we get round the corner,trust me.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Dont know about Holland but I once bought a boat in Germany and the process was'nt dissimilar to UK. Biggest problem was getting the paperwork from the previous owner ie VAT invoice, HIN document, Bills of Sale for changes of ownership. The Europeans seem much more relaxed about documentation but you need this not only to establish title to the boat (important when you sell it on) but also to register the boat in UK and you need ORIGINALS, not photocopies. It cost me £2k in legal fees to get these in the end
Personally, I had misgivings handing a large sum of cash to a foreign broker just in case he absconded with it so I would advise that you used only well known brokers and that you take possession of the boat the instant your cash hits the brokers account. I would also suggest that you use a UK surveyor for peace of mind even though it will cost you an air fare
Despite this, I got a good boat at a lower price than the UK so I was happy in the end

 

[tcm]

Re: dodgy foreigners - i don\'t think so?

I would say that laws on the continent (w europe anyway) are much tighter with regard to financial dealings and so on. Specifically, it's a very serious offence to bounce a cheque, for example.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Re: dodgy foreigners - i don\'t think so?

Did'nt mean to come across as union jack booted Europhobe and not remotely suggesting that johnny foreigner yacht broker is less trustworthy than UK variety. Point is if UK broker does a runner, contract would be enforced under UK law. If German broker does a runner, contract would be enforceable under German law which is an even worse nightmare.
I've always had misgivings about the financial role a broker plays in a transaction. You give a bloke you dont know maybe many hundreds of thousands of squids and you just have to take on trust that he puts it into a client account and transfers the balance to the vendor. I know the broker is legally the vendor's agent and when you pay the broker, the boat is legally yours, but, if the broker does'nt pay the vendor and the vendor does'nt release the boat? I bet thats happened a few times

 

[EME]

Re: dodgy foreigners - i don\'t think so?

A lawyer can probably explain why. IMHO experience and that extends to buying via brokers abroad , but not a boat , the laws surrounding agency/brokerage and the requirements of agents/brokers are generally more onerousin Germany and France.

Also IMHO ( supported by where we do bbusiness), GENERALLY there is less fraudulent consumer behaviour in mainland Europe than in the UK. Sad but True.



...I wanna boat please..

 

[miket]

I bought from Holland through a broker with very little hassle.

If you are the Pheran of ODCC and UTMYC, I'm in the book, give me a call.

 

[david_bagshaw]

you ask

assuming VAT was paid at the initial purchase, are there any tax implications if I
decide to keep the boat in Holland 'permanently' rather than just 'visit'


we have kept a boat in the netherlands since the mid 80s, without any problems. Probably worth the expense of proper british registry, & keep the vat paid certificate / bill etc on board, for the occasional inspection.

The Rya are the people to speak to on re-flagging.



Good luck


David
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.euroboating.net>http://www.euroboating.net</A>

 

[oldgit]

Re: dodgy foreigners - i don\'t think so?

I am totally against capital punisment ............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................except for people who write dud cheques.
Ps.Poss substitute quarry for people who would like to pursue hunting after fox chasing is banned.

Just hold tight dear it will not be so rough when we get round the corner,trust me.

 

[pheran]

miket - I confess. it is I (me?) Didn't know you had actually bought in Holland so will gladly take up you offer. Will be in touch

Many thanks to everyone else who responded. Grateful for the advice


byron - I WILL be back. Be afraid, be very afraid

 

[miket]

Look forward to hearing from you.

Are you at the sailpast on Sunday at Sonning?

 

[byron]

OH! Chris
So you wanna fight my friend. My friend is Clive Folley who will also be at the Sailpast, fight him. Failing that I will get my Minder Syd to come down, kick him in his Nuts and see what happens /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

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[mainshiptom]

I purchased my boat in Holland two monthes ago !

Perfect !

1 A lot cheaper then th uk. about 30-40%

2 Great journey back !

3 Lovely people, I used De Valk Of Loosdrecht, And they can speak english and spell as well.

Yes I agree they are a lot more realex then us.

Regards to paper work I would recomend to use a marine mortage to purchase the boat, they would worry about all paper work and even check over the survey for any suprises, after 6 monthes you can pay the mortage back with no penalties and the paper work is with you with no penalty or worry.

Lets face it the marine mortage people are expeienced and wouls do there jobs well since they would not invest there money on a doodgy boat.

As to survior it is up to you ! I chosse a local dutch man and saved a lot of money about 1K but there is always a risk !

Dutch boat yards would fix anything that the surivior foinds as long as you pay asking price !

gOOD LUCK

TOM

 

[pheran]

miket - yes but on somwone elses boat (if they will havje me) Hide the whisky!!
see u there?

byron - youre only putting Clive up ti lull me into afalse sense of security. Bet you
thoughjt Syd was related to THE DOCKERS (of goldplatyed Daimler fame)
&U only talk to me since U found outy I have a double-barreled surname!

tom - thanks for that. Usefuil points

E&OE - had cateractop this pm and trying to find my way round this keyboard from memeory

 

[nautigirl]

Just a thought. We had a 15m boat in the south of Holland for some time but found that the smaller and more attractive marinas had only a limited no of visitors berths for this size of boat. Might pay you to plan and book ahead. Good Luck.