Buying a used boat - #*&%$* owners!

[Callisto]

Hi DV
I think it has something to do with the fact that all purchases are subject to the tax. We don't like it but we accept it and as such it actually becomes part of the "purchase price"

In this case, I can't see how it is possible in the case of a boat to buy it new, drive it 100yards down the pontoon so its effectively a "second hand" boat then sell it using your logic for 17.5% less than you bought it for 5 minutes before which is the way I think you are implying. No owner would do that IMHO.

A few years down the line, market forces take over and the vessel is worth what she is worth and what another purchaser is prepared to pay. I don't think anyone then looks at the original purchase price, deducts VAT and then adjusts the price according to age/condition etc.

I think you are losing on this one unless I am missing something fundamental in your reasoning.

Cheers

JH

 

[[2068]]

>
>Cos you can't buy it without
>

O yes you can, or least you can claim it back if it's going to be permanently outside the EU, or it's going to be used as a commercial charter boat.

 

[ari]

[ QUOTE ]

>
>Cos you can't buy it without
>

O yes you can, or least you can claim it back if it's going to be permanently outside the EU, or it's going to be used as a commercial charter boat.

[/ QUOTE ]

Right, so that's virtually no one then... /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

 

[duncan]

which is why I put it this way earlier........... [ QUOTE ]
can't see how the status of an individual purchaser would or should be reflected in the price of a SH boat to the general market

[/ QUOTE ]

absolutely agree that if a substantial part of the target market is going to be able to reclaim the vat then it would be reflected.

 

[[2068]]

Put yourself in the position of Sealine Swanwick.

They know that selling an S28 at £83k plus £14k vat keeps the company ticking over and making a reasonable profit. They don't get the £14k, so the £83k has to cover production, R&D, marketing, overheads, directors pensions, the lot.

You buy one new, and pay full whack. Next day, you are run over by a truck. SWMBO tries to sell the boat back to the dealer. Assuming that Sealine Swanwick have a steady stream of customers lined up, they have a choice: pay her asking price or build another one. The fact that they can build another one at £83k and still make a profit is always going to limit the value of the second hand article. Why on earth would they pay £97k for yours when they can build another for £83k and make more money ?

I'm not saying that this is an absolute rule, it's just one of many factors that affects the "market" price. But I think with boats (unlike a bottle of whisky), people are aware of the VAT component, and it does make a difference. Last time I spoke to the Sealine dealer, he agreed with me on this, although on this forum I seem out on a limb.

Last word on the subject !

dv.

 

[Callisto]

Now I think I can see where you are coming from.

You are looking at selling to a dealer/manufacturer. In this case I can see your logic as the VAT isn't paid by them, its paid by the purchaser in effect. In this case only, your argument stacks up because they can build another one.

In the case of SWMBO selling the boat to a private buyer via a broker or private sale, she would advertise "boat - two days old". In this case, the price compared to new would be lower as it is a second hand boat, but still not by 17.5%.

Seriously DV, if you bought a 100K boat would you accept a drop of 17.5k in a day..........I wouldn't!

Also, if a potential purchaser has to wait for Mr Sealine to build his new one when yours is sitting there for the taking, only two days old and you can buy it for less than you would pay Mr Sealine and Mr Robbin BStard (AKA G Brown) you would go for it.

Think we are on the same ground here but a slightly different interpretation.

Want to let this one go.....don't know about you but my brain hurts...........give me a boat to rewire...its easier!! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
JH

 

[ari]

If Sealine Swanwicks customer wants and can afford a new one then thats what he'll buy.

if he can't afford a new one or simply wants to save a few pounds by buying a used one, then he'll buy the used one.

And the figures he'll look at are cost new (VAT paid cos 99% of people buy a boat that way), and cost used (already VAT paid cos thats what he want,s a VAT paid boat). What Sealine can build and sell a boat for, or VAT content of new boat, or the price of fish, is irrelevent.

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

[ QUOTE ]
My guess is that most land has'nt moved since 2000 so I think they'd still be of some use /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

You obviously don't sail on the East Coast!

5/6 years old charts are of less value than the paper they are written on in certains parts of the loveliest sailing area in the UK /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[Joe_Cole]

It happens with so called desirable cars. People will pay a premium to get a secondhand model now rather than get on a waiting list. They pay full price, plus VAT plus a premium. Daft, but it happens!

 

[Whitelighter]

This happens. Take the new BMW M5. 2 year plus waiting list. We sold our first unit to a very loyal customer. List price with a few bits and bobs was over £60k.

Three months later is has been sold for £4k more than he bought it for from us! And that includes the VAT.

 

[ClassicPlastic]

Well, by way of an update - and with a slight attempt to correct some severe thread drift - this is the latest:

Two more boats, one which the owner effectively said was not fit for sea trial when I attempted to organise it, and the other (extremely expensive but very nice) ended with the owner simply not returning the broker's calls.

What is going on? I'm simply trying to find a nice boat, that's been looked after, at a fair price, and ideally before the summer ends!

 

[nicho]

Re: Buying a used boat - #*&%$* owners!

Can be a pain, finding the right boat that is. We made the mistake of starting to look BEFORE we even had the current boat on the market. What happened? We unearthed the most gorgeous S37 around, 5 years old, but looks less than one inside and out, with a fastidious owner that was running around with a chamois leather as we were on a sea trial, mopping up bits of spray that found itself in the cockpit. A boat with fantastic spec, and 370 hours on the "right" engines.

He was anxious to sell, so we got a really good deal, so all this has meant we have ended up with two flaming boats, and a big hole in the savings account!! Why is it it's always a good time to buy, but rarely a good time to sell, no matter what the market conditions at the time!!