Buying a used boat - #*&%$* owners!

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ClassicPlastic

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So, I've been very seriously shopping for a while now, only to have each prospective purchase fall down either on mechanical defects, each of which was obvious on simply running the engines (though proper engineering inspections revealed the precise problems), or on account of unreasonable expectations of value by the owner (no-one seems to take account of engine hours - do people really think that a boat with 3500 hours on the engines is worth the same as one with 750 hours!!!???).

How many of you will admit to knowingly not maintaining your boat properly? Are people simply clueless on engine issues? Or have I met boats whose owners have realised something is wrong and rushed off to the broker to shift the problem to someone who doesn't know what they're doing?
 
I thought the process was to discover the defects, price them up, then deduct cost of fixing properly from offer price, and then a bit more off for not being upfront.

Engine hours shouldn't make a difference within a reasonable range. I don't see that a 400hour boat is any less valuable than a 200hour one. 3500hours is a different story (or maybe not, if properly maintained).
 
In which case they will continue to wait with an unsold boat until someone with lots of money but zero negotiating skills comes along (lottery winner?).

At some point, they will then drop the asking price or accept a realistic offer, having wasted everyone's time for the previous "n" months.

Smirk as you think of all that money that they have tied up in that unsold boat. Chuckle at those loan payments and storage charges that continue to rack up. And break into big guffaws as you realise that whenever it is that they do finally decide to get real, their boat will be that much older, hence worth less.

It's a buyer's market /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
 
It's only the same as houses or cars. It seems a strangely British thing that people seem to feel that having spent a lot of money on something they apparently wanted and got use from, they also want to make a wacking profit on the, now older and shabbier, item.
That's why things stick for so long. Boats in particular.
I once made an offer on a Jaguar 25. Only £500 under the asking price. He didn't take it, but the boat was still in the marina, unused, 2 years later.
Where is the sense in that?
 
dvinell,

Thanks for your post - yes, you made me chuckle!

But, I've already lost half of my summer holiday, having sold my own boat on the assumption that I would be able to find a replacement in about six weeks. I'm now losing the second half, too.
 
Yes, I find this amazing myself having recently bought another boat. You would think that owners would present their boats for sale in tiptop condition both mechanically and cosmetically but it never ceases to surprise me that some owners expect to get top dollar for a boat and yet dont bother to even keep it clean and tidy for prospective buyers.
I recently bought a boat that on the surface looked well cared for but when we delved deeper it turned out that the owner had not bothered to do any maintenance for over a year. I reduced my offer by €25k to reflect the cost of doing the maintenance and the risk of finding faults with the boat after purchase so the owner had to take a big hit simply because he could'nt be arsed to present the boat for sale in good order. So far, I've spent €11k bringing the boat back upto scratch so I'm quids in
I do agree also that engine hours have a significant effect on value. Whatever the accepted wisdom about engines needing to be worked, engines that have done 2000hrs are closer to the end of their working lives than engines that have only done 500hrs so that has to be reflected in price. Then there is the issue of other systems on the boat all of which are likely to be more worn on a 2000hr boat than a 500hr one and there is the likelihood that all the furnishings are also more tired. So, no way can a high engine hour hour boat be worth as much as a low engine hour one, IMHO
 
Turn the question round and your answer is more obvious -
how many people have oustanding jobs to do (or get done) on their boats?
I live with some because they haven't proved an operational problem (like the gear shift cable that was initially routed onto the exhaust elbow and the casing is badly 'scared' but 4 years later it still operates fine) and other are a case of as a when.........
I find it slightly disconcerting that there is an expectation that the boat will be in showroom condition and cheaper than new (base price) despite all the additional money that will have been spent on tenders, electronics etc etc

engine hours wise I would echo the comments already made - hours alone mean absolutely nothing to a good diesel. How it's been used (sympathetic use) frequency of use and oil changes, storage (engine bay kept warm ?) etc will mean a lot more than the difference between 50 and 500 hours.

If a boat is as new then why wouldn't you expect to pay near new prices?
 
Before I bought MF, I did a round trip of 500 miles to scotland, to look at about five or 6 boats. All 100 grand +.
Each failed on inspection before even getting on the boat. Ripped covers, ripped seats. Rusty old hasp and staples with pad lock on one. £500 or £1000 would have had any of them looking much better.
 
British negotiating style

Having lived and worked in India for three years I'm always amused at the British sence of fair play in negotiation. Before we dare to offer a reduced price we have to back it up with all sorts of logic.
My experience in India was the opposite. The buyer would initially offer a third (or so) of the asking price and bartering would begin. Even after agreement the bartering continues until the cash is handed over. I live in Birmingham and find our culture here is enriched by the same behavior in the Asian community.
 
Re: British negotiating style

I agree with that. Somewhat hypocritically.
I may be buying something and offer a price to the vendor on the basis that it's the price I'm willing to pay, no more.
But when selling (and I am not a greedy seller) I often think "cheeky <font color="black">bu</font><font color="black">gger</font>!" when someone undervalues my wonderful, top quality item.
 
Nobody is expecting a used boat to be in showroom condition just to exhibit signs of being well looked after if the asking price is on a level with the rest of the market and there is a contractual issue here. If you advertise a boat with a list of equipment, you have a duty to ensure that the equipment is in working order unless you specifically point out to potential purchasers that it is'nt. So, for example, if you make an offer on a boat and during the sea trial, you find the plotter is'nt working (assuming the plotter has been listed on the details), then you are entitled to expect the owner to put it right or reduce your offer in compensation
Engine hours is definitely an issue on modern high performance diesels. Whilst low revving, non-turbo charged diesels will go on for ever, the current generation of lightweight, high revving turbo/super charged engines will most definitely not so engine hours is a factor in the value of the boat
 
Aha! Yes, plotters...

So how about owners who advertise that the boat has a plotter - but it uses CF85 cartridges, which are (since 2000) no longer available? In my view, a plotter with an out-of-date database is no plotter at all...
 
[ QUOTE ]
you are entitled to expect the owner to put it right or reduce your offer in compensation


[/ QUOTE ] This assumes that you agree that the asking price reflects the true value of the boat in "as advertised" condition.
I would suggest that the boat is worth what someone will pay for it. Knowing the faults is a guide to what you will need to spend on rectification, but musn't be the only point of negotiation.
Some people just ask too much.

The point made about why shouldn't an "as new" boat be as much as a new boat is ridiculous. It may have a lot of extra kit, but we all know that some of it you wouldn't have bought and the rest is likely to fail anyway.
If you're going to pay that kind of money, get the new boat with a warranty.
 
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