Buying a share

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johnsail

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I am interested in buying a 1/4 share in a boat built in 2000. I have been informed that it is not usual to have a survey done as the parties retaining their share are more than likely to impart details of known problems etc.

Advice please. Any comments?

And what about an opening offer? Less 10% just as if buying a whole boat?
 
I am tempted to say you should have a survey even so. The existing owners are trying to sell you the boat whatever their remaining interest in it might be. You need to know it is worth the money and there are no major problems.

Indeed, I would suggest you go through the usual buyer programme - ie: Check the sellers have title and what mortgages are outstanding - you don't want to be left with their debts if the whole thing goes pearshaped; clarify what is in the inventory.

In addition investigate the following, which are specific to partnerships: what are the partnership management arrangements; how are questions of additional equipment, repairs, improvements etc resolved; how are the finances managed (standing orders into joint accounts, direct debits, ad hoc payments etc); how is boat usage allocated; and, perhaps most importantly, how does the partnership handle the withdrawal of one or more partners or the break-up of the partnership?

As far as the asking rice is concerned, check round brokers and private ads to find out whether the asking price is about right. If you have a survey, the surveyor should be able to advise whether the price is reasonable. You can try a starting bid of 90 per cent but don't expect it to be accepted if teh asking price is about right - be prepared to negotiate or walk away

Most partnerships are very successful, but just occasionally they go badly wrong. Make sure everything to do with the partnership is written down in a legal contract and that your exit strategy is clearly spelled out.
 
I've always subscribed to keeping business and friendship in separate pockets, as it were, so if I was parting with a lot of money for a 1/4 of a boat I would tell the vendor that I was paying for a survey, even if he/she were a friend. If it were a 1/4 of a 1960's 20-footer, or the sort of sum you'd be happy to write off, then that would be another matter, but if they get shirty about criticism or have something they are in denial about then it's best to know now. After all, you'll be buying into 1/4 of the maintenance and upkeep as well, best to know what it is that you're buying.
 
Who is doing the informing? Call me cynical, but the selling party and the other three parties may be more interested in acquiring a new partner quickly than disclosing all the problems. Problem is a survey will cost more proportionally for a quarter than a whole boat. When was the last survey they can show you? If well before 2000 then why not ask them to contribute, or at least cover it in your offer. The surveyor may save you 10%.

Is your offer being made to a departing partner?

And treat it like a complete boat, check all the documentation and maintenance receipts thoroughly.

A partnership can be good fun if you approach it properly.
 
Would it be reasonable also to ask the surveyor for a valuation, as is the case for a house? I must say the survey on my boat did NOT include a valuation, but, then, I didnt ask for one. You should be paying a quarter of the SELLING PRICE for the boat, not a quarter of what they think it is worth, there is likely to be a great difference - even if it is a friend. Owners have an inflated view of the value of their possessions. If surveyor cant give a valuation, do a fair bit of research, remember you are looking for the SALE price, not the asking price.
 
I have been informed?

Yeah right!

I would inform the sydicate that it is about time they had an up to date survey and offer to pay 1/4 of the cost, as all will surely benefit.

I'm sure there is some middle ground there.

In fact I would be suprised if a precidence for this hasn't been set before, either by Yacht Fractions or other syndicates.
 
Re: I have been informed?

My comments are as foll:owslAre the other parties aware that one member is trying to sell? , it s not always the case for one reason or another .I would establish this then ring all the other owners and get a feel for the syndicate by asking lots of questions .If anything is untoward its likley to come out in three different conversations.Speaking from exsperience I would say the other owners wouldnt want anyone joining only to be presented with unexspected bills - not a good way to get a new partner on board at all .Its a tricky time for the remaining owners who will be anxious to gain a good partner.I have been in a syndicate in the past for 8 years and 2 years .The two years share was badly run and lots of arguments because too many partners (8) .The quarter share ran very well with minimal hassle and i thought it gave me a great way into boating . I would say that just because its a quarter share it doesnt mean the costs are a quarter !The boat will get much more use and items will need much more frequent replacement then if owned outright .Also bear in mind that when having work done the price tends to refelect that four people are paying !!meaning i never thought we paid single owner prices for work done .As to price then you need to check out similar boats and compare so that you have an idea as to wether asking price is sensible or not .If possible try and get a more experienced friend to look her over before making a decision on survey .Its a relativly new boat so I imagine cost of survey could pay off .Hope it all works out for you .
 
Re: I have been informed?

Quote
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________Its a relativly new boat so I imagine cost of survey could pay off .

____________________________________________________________________

Thanks for your response all comments much appreciated.

re the above quote - not sure what you are getting at here. I would have thought that with a newre boat the need for a survey was less important.

Am I missing a point somewhere?
 
Re: I have been informed?

I think a survey may not be needed on such a new boat and what reason would the current owners have for needing a survey as I believe insurance companies would not require a survey at this age .As an above post says if it was an old boat with little capitol outlay then its more worth a punt but at this age I would imagine its quite high value purchase .if I had any doubts after speaking to other owners and they were at all evasive then a survey could be justified BUT then I would have to ask myself if i wanted to be in the syndicate at all ?
 
Am I missing a point somewhere?

It's a bit like buying a house or even renting a house, if you don't note the defects before handover, they are all yours!

So, has it been grounded, is the keel sound, has anyone reversed the rudder into the putty whilst berthing, has it been crash gybed and strained the gooseneck attachments, are all rigging pick up points sound, is the machinery installation workmanlike, are the through hulls correctly bonded if applicable, are the electrics in good order, are there signs of water ingress where there shouldn't be, are the bilge pumps actually connected, are there any signs of delamination in the floors, has there been any movement in the hull / deck joint, has a rope round the prop dislodged the p-bracket?

I have heard of boats delivered with such issues, I have known almost new boats with such issues and I have heard of boats sustaining damage even before delivery to the owners.

So the point is, not even the existing owners may be aware of what is going on. At least if she is out of the water for the winter you could check some of this for your self.

Good luck.
 
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