buying a boat, brokers ?

[abbott013]

what are people experiances of buy a boat through a broker, i am trying to buy a boat and when i have asked to have amendments to the contract of sale i have been told that it is a standard contract only and they do not want to add any amendments to contract. is this right.

 

[Skyva_2]

There is a standard agreement which seems to work for most people. What sort of changes are you looking for?

 

[abbott013]

the owner of the boat seems not to have any previous records apart from a out of date Part 1, i think i am right in thinking i need him to do a bill of sale form throught the Part 1 registry

 

[Skyva_2]

I'm afraid I can't help with Part 1. Are there no previous records at all?

Original VAT Invoices

Builder’s Certificate

Previous Bills of Sale

Lloyd’s Hull Certificate

SSR Certificate or Part 1 Certificate of Registry

If the boat is old/low cost this might not be a problem, but it's odd that there is nothing.

This does not affect the contract as such.

 

[abbott013]

the seller is keeping things very close to his chest, so i have to take it that he has no records. but on the Part 1 registry it shows the seller as the owner of the vessel. so i think it is a good idea to get the ownership changed into my name.

 

[GeorgeLlewellin]

It is not only essential to get it changed into your name on the registry but it is also essential to make sure there is no lien against the vessel before you purchase. The broker should be able to do all this and should also be covered by third party insurance. Check if the broker is an ABYA member and have it confirmed that he has insurance.
Good luck, George

 

[tillergirl]

If you are going to keep up the Pt 1 (which is a good idea), then you will need a Bill of Sale. How else do the broker's propose to pass the title to you?

 

[abbott013]

there is also a bill of sale for for the part1 1 registration, which divides the boat into 64 shares?. the prescent owner must fill this form in to hand ownership on the part 1 register to new owner

 

[jonic]

Get it in writing that the seller is the owner is free to sell the boat free of any debts and that Vat is paid and can be proven so. Why is the part 1 out of date? Check the broker is a CURRENT ABYA member or a BMF member. What changes did you want? I make changes to the standard contract if it suits both parties.

 

[santeana]

The existing owner should be allocated all 64 shares on the Part 1 certificate if he is the sole owner; but that was 'then'. Why not ask the existing owner to update his Part 1 as a condition of purchase? You can then request a report from the British Registry to satisfy youself over the vessel's status. Obtaining your own Part 1 will then be a breeze. This process is not unusual and I have experience of it being done.
Hope all goes well.

 

[abbott013]

part 1 run out in may, only lasts for five years. he has no proof of vat, and the brokers seem very dismissive of this fact. and yes the brokers is a abya full member

 

[abbott013]

i have done a historical search on the part 1 register and every thing looks fine there, does it matter if he registers again, thought it might be easier if i registered

 

[santeana]

I'm probably being over-cautious. I just feel a bit uneasy about what may have taken place in the 'gap' in Part 1. If he does it whilst the owner it eliminates all risk for you. If he refuses I'd be more than uneasy. I know the previous owner of my boat did exactly what I suggested to cover a Part 1 'gap' of 12 months.

 

[abbott013]

can i ask why you would feel uneasy about a gap in registry, what do you think could happen in this situation

 

[santeana]

Let the buyer beware - why do we do checks; why is Part 1 so re-assuring. I don't know all the fiddles dishonest owners could pull. That's why I 'd want my purchase underpinned. Is he stlll the sole owner? Has he sold shares? Has he mortgaged the boat? Are there any outstanding debts on the boat? Is it paid for; Is he in cahoots with the boker? - you add your own, Martin. The status of everything could have changed in 'the gap' and if he jibs over renewing in his own name I'd think twice. You probably know, the RYA have some good stuff on this including a specimen 'agreement of sale' you could use to check against.
"I'm probably being over-cautious".

 

[abbott013]

not sure if my problem is being over cautious, but i will be back on the phone tomorrow to see if i can make a bit more sence of this sale. thank you

 

[PeterGibbs]

Although you are using a broker and can expect a certain performance from him you are best advised to make personally sure all aspects of the deal are watertight before parting with any money, even as a deposit.

It is essential, as others have said, that whoever is offering the vessel through the broker is in a position to sell all of it (not just bits of 64th's!) and that there is no money due on it even for yard charges etc. This must be warranted or you do not, my friend, proceed with the purchase. There is always another deal!

It is likely the vessel has attracted VAT and an original document showing this has been paid is also essential. No document, no deal. No photocopies either. As owner you will be liable to show your vessel is VAT paid anywhere inside the EU. If not, you may have to pay it again! At the very least you will find it very difficult to sell on in due course without VAT papers!

The conract being offered you is a standard document and may be used (I refer to the RYA doc) with some confidence.
It does not deal with variations such as you envisage. These can be covered by means of a side letter, referred to beside your signature as forming part of the deal.

If your broker is not happy with any of the above, and just wants you out of his office less your cheque, move on!

Good luck, and be demanding - it's your money, after all!

PWG

 

[jonic]

I agree with Peter totally. The broker should not be dismissive. Asking for actual proof of title and vat status is perfectly reasonable and should be done by the broker in the first place. If there are issues with VAT and title they will become your problems. What is the age of the boat?