buying '72 grp cruiser - survey questions, etc

[mikeduckett]

buying \'72 grp cruiser - survey questions, etc

Have seen a '72 grp westerly - as our first cruiser - am happy with the condition - sails, engine old ish, great condition inside - no obvious problems - value circa £11k.

Will get a survey done.
I assume I make offer subject to satisfactory survey?
It is out of the water - should I keep something back & pay when engine is run?
How do I find a surveyor, what instruction do I give him & how much should it cost?
Will this cover insurance needs as well?
If that is all ok - what do re paperwork - (bill of sale) - who provides this?
I want to take the boat across to France - what do I need re VAT paid, etc.

What else should I be bothering about?

Cheers

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[johnsomerhausen]

Re: buying \'72 grp cruiser - survey questions, etc

Can;t answer your questions about the survey, but have you looked at the "sad VAT story" on this or the YM forum in the last few days ?
john

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[Neal]

Some thoughts....

1) Yes - make your offer subject to survey. Go to the RYA site, and you can download a proforma contract that makes explicit the responsibilities of the buyer and seller.
2) The standard contract will answer this point.
3) best way to find a surveyor is by personal recommendation. Ask around your club, friends, or on this board. As a last resort, there are a few organisations who represent surveyors eg the YBDSA. Tell the surveyor you want a pre-purchase survey. Clarify whether this will include looking at machinery and electrics (they're usually excluded)
4) Again, I think you'll find a proforma Bill of Sale on the RYA site.
5)For VAT, ideally you'd be given the original invoice or receipt from when the boat was first sold. If its long since been lost, in your case it doesn't matter. What you will then need is evidence that the boat was in the EU at midnight on 31st Dec 1992, and evidence that she was built before 1st Jan 1985

Good luck!

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[mikeduckett]

Re: Some thoughts....

how much should I be paying for a pre purchase / insurance survey?

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[graham]

Re: Some thoughts....

Mike .Best of luck with the purchase .The surveyor if he is a member of the YBDSA charge by a formula on length and breadth ,so should all be the same.I would guess at about £250 on a 26 footer.

From what you have said it sounds like a Westerly Centaur or similar.There are lots of these about so an experienced surveyor will know the boat inside out.

A point to remember is they charge mileage so a local man will be cheaper.

Tell him you intend the report to be used for both purchase and insurance purposes .

Personally I would make an offer subject to survey but pay nothing at this point.Get the survey done and adjust your offer if expensive work needs doing.

If lots need doing and the price isnt flexible enough cut your losses and keep looking ,there are hundreds of similar boats on the market .

Definitely keep a large percentage back until the engine can be heard running.

Check at an early stage that the boatyard or marina isnt owed a lot of money by the owner or they will make it difficult for you to leave with the boat.

Clear up any grey areas such as who pays to have the boat relaunched bearing in mind you cant do a proper engine trial until she is.

Sails are expensive items so have a good look and note any repairs or replacements needed.If you can hoist them on a quiet day to get a better idea.

Standing rigging is another area of concern.If more than 10 years old(you will need evidence eg receipts) the insurance may insist on renewal.One of their tricks is to accept you for a year ,then demand it done in the second year .

Its a bit of a minefield but should also be an enjoyable and exciting time.

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[Neal]

Some more thoughts....

I can certainly see the sense of Graham's suggestion of not paying anything till after the survey. However, the usual procedure is to pay a 10% deposit on offer. The seller then takes the boat off the market, whereas with Graham's system you risk losing the boat to someone else.

This may not be too troublesome. However, if you've travelled many miles, and taken months, to search out your perfect boat, you may prefer to pay the deposit. Which begs the question of who holds it - assuming there's no broker, do you trust the seller? Even with a broker, I'd only pay it into a client account (having had a broker try to do a runner with £20,000 of my hard earned cash in 1990 - its a long story!).

I've only ever twice had a surveyor charge travelling costs (once from Wales to Isle of Man, once from Southampton to North Essex).

Last month I had three quotes from YBDSA members in Devon to survey a Carter 33. Two were the same to the penny (£450 + VAT), the third was £250 + VAT, so it can pay to shop around.

To cover yourself on the engine, you could make your offer subject to survey and acceptance trials.

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[extravert]

Re: buying \'72 grp cruiser - survey questions, etc

For something as important as VAT status, go to the Customs and Excise web site and get the guidelines yourself. They produce a document called 'UK Guide for Yachts' and you can find a link to it 80% of the way down this webpage...

Adventures of the VAT unpaid <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.xrayted.fsnet.co.uk>Teddy Bear Boat