Busy, busy, busy in the marine leisure industry

[Garold]

As an impractical and often absent boat owner living over 100 miles away, I tend to get others to do stuff on my boat so that I can just do the enjoyable bits. And I like to buy and upgrade boat kit, (if only to to relieve the tedium and seeming pointlessness of normal working life). However, recently everyone that I use or would like to use for marine goods or services seems really busy.

My heating guy has taken 2-3 weeks to take a look at a small water leak on my hydronic system.

The boat wash guys promised to make a monthly visit, and haven't been back after the first wash 6 weeks ago.

The diver that I wanted to check my anodes promised to do it in the next week or two and has now told me that he is going to be too busy to do anything for at least another 3 weeks.

The sailmaker promised to make a cruising chute in a couple of weeks but we are now 4 weeks on and it should be ready 'next' week.

My enquiry to the rib dealer for a new tender who promised faithfully to get back to me by the end of the day, hasn't.

The local marine electronic specialist that I visited to arrange some remedial/fixing work two weeks ago hasn't called me to confirm a date for a visit after promising to do so in few days.

So, what's happening out there? Is there some sort of massive improvement in the marine leisure industry? I purposely haven't named names because I like the people that I deal with and don't want to unintentionally tarnish any reputations, but I just wanted to put it out there that business can't be as slow in the industry as everyone makes out.

Anyone having similar experiences?

Cheers

Garold

Ps. I shall keep chasing.

 

[salinia]

It seems to be the norm these days the only redress is to shop around if possible.

 

[bluemoongaffer]

Yes, I asked 3 companies to quote for an expensive item (£1,500 or so). Only one has replied

 

[Searush]

It's as bad with traders too. I want some minor LPG & water plumbing done on the house. Asked 6 people to quote, two came to see, one went off in a huff when I tried to negotiate the price & the other one hasn't bother to do a quote after visiting.

I know it's only about a half to one day's work, but it's cash in hand & I would like to have it Gas-Safe certified. Clearly not short of work are they?

 

[dylanwinter]

on the other hand

Dear Garold,

as some-one in the services industry

may I ask you some questions about yourself as a customer

please don't feel the need to answer them as every man must judge his own actions

and I am sure that you have a clean ticket on all counts but....

1/Are you well known among those who run marine services in your area?

2/do you pay on time and without quibbling about the bill?

3/are you nice and polite to the said members of the marine services when you contact them?

4/ do you ever thank them for doing such a good job for you and expresss your admiration for their general high level of skill, committment and all round niceness?

Just asking is all of course

but having worked for some pretty demanding and high handed clients over many years there are certain people who I would tend to put at the back of the line. I am sure you are not one of them because you come across on this board as such a lovely bloke.

yours

Fantonella Depardieu - head of harmony at Keep Turning Left plc inc

 

[Giblets]

I know it's only about a half to one day's work, but it's cash in hand & I would like to have it Gas-Safe certified. Clearly not short of work are they?

So you want to pay cash hopefully to get a cheaper price and you want a paper trail?

 

[Searush]

So you want to pay cash hopefully to get a cheaper price and you want a paper trail?

The cash payment is not an incentive to avoid the law, it just shows that I am not trying to avoid or delay payment with dud cheques or ignored invoices. It's a cash flow issue, or have you not run a small business?

I suspect that many of the local traders are not VAT registered anyway.

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

I've had various results this last 6 months.

The GRP expert in the yard over-ran on time on a major job of his and so the work on my boat was delayed two weeks. Nobodys fault, just the way things go sometimes.

I should have had an all-over winter cover made for my yacht, ready by May/June. It was partially finished in June but going into July I had arranged the boat to be dismasted and put in a shed for refit. The boat came out of the shed at the beginning of August and the mast was restepped. The cover has apparently just been completed 14/10/11 but much of the timber that was dried well having a moisture content good to work on, is now wet again as the ambient humidity is so high

A marine electrician putting in new circuits and making all safe was due to turn up next week. Phoned up last week to say he had problems with the week planned could he come a week sooner. I had to say yes but much of the preparatory work for him wasn't done and half the stuff I wanted to install was at home and it couldn't be at the boat 'til this weekend. So the work is now split over two weeks.

Whilst I had the mast off in July, I had it all checked over for safety and new bits fitted. A quote was received and I o.k'd a lot of work to be done.
A fortnight before the mast was to be restepped, end of July, I had a call suggesting that the mast was well past its sell-by-date and would look a mess with all those repairs etc. and I'd be better off with a new mast! ... Like hell! I insisted he did the work quoted for and by the time I wanted it for. I had put a lot of work his way and I reminded him of that fact and somehow a perfectly good mast is now restepped and about £4K less than a new one!

I've not fallen out with anyone, I've paid on the spot and kept good faith from my end. However, things can really test the patience.

 

[Giblets]

The cash payment is not an incentive to avoid the law,

In that case what is there to negotiate?

It's a cash flow issue, or have you not run a small business?

Yes, for the past 31 years so I am more than aware of cash flow issues. In my experience if customers offer to pay cash then they invariably expect a discount. My apologies if I have mis-understood your intentions but anyone who wants my signature on a piece of paper pays full price, full stop!

 

[fireball]

In that case what is there to negotiate?



Yes, for the past 31 years so I am more than aware of cash flow issues. In my experience if customers offer to pay cash then they invariably expect a discount. My apologies if I have mis-understood your intentions but anyone who wants my signature on a piece of paper pays full price, full stop!

Yes - but what is "full price" - full price is the price that you have quoted for the job - it must allow for admin and other overheads ... it isn't the price you're always going to get for doing the job - that's part of the negotiation skill of the customer and yourself.

So, if you said a job would cost a ton and I said £90? I'm not trying to get a "discount" ... just I think the job is worth less than you state.
If I think the price is fair then I'll say so ... and have done too.

Bartering/Haggling is a skill not many use these days.

 

[Heckler]

As an impractical and often absent boat owner living over 100 miles away, I tend to get others to do stuff on my boat so that I can just do the enjoyable bits. And I like to buy and upgrade boat kit, (if only to to relieve the tedium and seeming pointlessness of normal working life). However, recently everyone that I use or would like to use for marine goods or services seems really busy.

My heating guy has taken 2-3 weeks to take a look at a small water leak on my hydronic system.

The boat wash guys promised to make a monthly visit, and haven't been back after the first wash 6 weeks ago.

The diver that I wanted to check my anodes promised to do it in the next week or two and has now told me that he is going to be too busy to do anything for at least another 3 weeks.

The sailmaker promised to make a cruising chute in a couple of weeks but we are now 4 weeks on and it should be ready 'next' week.

My enquiry to the rib dealer for a new tender who promised faithfully to get back to me by the end of the day, hasn't.

The local marine electronic specialist that I visited to arrange some remedial/fixing work two weeks ago hasn't called me to confirm a date for a visit after promising to do so in few days.

So, what's happening out there? Is there some sort of massive improvement in the marine leisure industry? I purposely haven't named names because I like the people that I deal with and don't want to unintentionally tarnish any reputations, but I just wanted to put it out there that business can't be as slow in the industry as everyone makes out.

Anyone having similar experiences?

Cheers

Garold

Ps. I shall keep chasing.

After reading the thread, my take is, because times are hard, peeps are laying off staff and trying to do it themselves. A slight rise in work doesnt justify employing more staff but it does slow down the completions because they are shorthanded?
Stu

 

[dylanwinter]

perhaps marine industry people have a choice

Yes - but what is "full price" - full price is the price that you have quoted for the job - it must allow for admin and other overheads ... it isn't the price you're always going to get for doing the job - that's part of the negotiation skill of the customer and yourself.

So, if you said a job would cost a ton and I said £90? I'm not trying to get a "discount" ... just I think the job is worth less than you state.
If I think the price is fair then I'll say so ... and have done too.

Bartering/Haggling is a skill not many use these days.

Very intersesting

.... well if I am in the marine services industry, say I was welling some sort of digital entertainment service at £5 a quarter - no idea what that might be perhaps there is scope for a business here

and say I have 1,000 customers happy to pay me £5 a pop

there might be a small percentage of customers who ask me to quote for access to my digital service

but they want to haggle about how much my service is worth

and if I know that they are well known locally for being good at haggling


well I think I might concentrate most of time on the non hagglers

Just an opnion as some-one who now works in the marine services industry

Dylan

 

[Giblets]

Yes - but what is "full price" - full price is the price that you have quoted for the job - it must allow for admin and other overheads ... it isn't the price you're always going to get for doing the job - that's part of the negotiation skill of the customer and yourself.

So, if you said a job would cost a ton and I said £90? I'm not trying to get a "discount" ... just I think the job is worth less than you state.
If I think the price is fair then I'll say so ... and have done too.

Unless you are in the same industry as me (regardless of what it may be) then I don't really see how you can say that a job is worth less than I state as you would not know my overheads, expenses or, indeed, see any pitfalls in the work that may be unforeseen by the customer but come with experience of doing the job. However, if you are in the same industry then I would ask why you are not doing the work yourself.

All too often when customers say "That's too expensive" what they really mean is "That's more than I want to pay." or "That's not what consumer television programmes have led me to believe I should be paying."

 

[Bosun Higgs]

All too often when customers say "That's too expensive" what they really mean is "That's more than I want to pay."

Quite right. They could also mean" lets haggle". And after all, you both have something the other guy wants. He wants his job doing - you want his money.

I usually find that small tradesmen are unreliable compared to the big companies but then thats one reason why many of them are small tradesmen rather than big ones. You juts have to allow for it - want a job done by next month, well tell them its vital its done by next week.

 

[Coaster]

Some customers tend to get the service they deserve.

If that sounds harsh please let me explain.

The key factor for many buyers seems to be price. I rarely hear people deciding to pay more for an item because the seller is particularly cheerful and competent. The net result is driving down of service standards.

We use a local chandlery for numerous purchases, especially day-to-day relatively low cost items. I could buy many of these items online and perhaps save 20% or so. I choose not to as I value the service provided.

There are various price comparison websites. Perhaps what we need is a standards of service comparison.

 

[Giblets]

I usually find that small tradesmen are unreliable compared to the big companies but then thats one reason why many of them are small tradesmen rather than big ones. You juts have to allow for it - want a job done by next month, well tell them its vital its done by next week.

I can tell you tales of customers being unreliable as well. Booking start times for jobs then cancelling the day before for some obscure reason then ringing up three weeks later expecting you to drop everything to start the next day as it is now convenient for the works to be done.

The pendulum swings both ways!

I sometimes wish the tv companies would do a series of programmes on Rogue Customers!

Also, some of us are happy as we are and don't want to big thank you very much.

 

[fergie_mac66]

Very intersesting

.... well if I am in the marine services industry, say I was welling some sort of digital entertainment service at £5 a quarter - no idea what that might be perhaps there is scope for a business here

and say I have 1,000 customers happy to pay me £5 a pop

there might be a small percentage of customers who ask me to quote for access to my digital service

but they want to haggle about how much my service is worth

and if I know that they are well known locally for being good at haggling


well I think I might concentrate most of time on the non hagglers

Just an opnion as some-one who now works in the marine services industry

Dylan

+1 if i give a quote and they say something less I just dont bother with the job

 

[Garold]

Dear Garold,

as some-one in the services industry

may I ask you some questions about yourself as a customer

please don't feel the need to answer them as every man must judge his own actions

and I am sure that you have a clean ticket on all counts but....

1/Are you well known among those who run marine services in your area?

2/do you pay on time and without quibbling about the bill?

3/are you nice and polite to the said members of the marine services when you contact them?

4/ do you ever thank them for doing such a good job for you and expresss your admiration for their general high level of skill, committment and all round niceness?

Just asking is all of course

but having worked for some pretty demanding and high handed clients over many years there are certain people who I would tend to put at the back of the line. I am sure you are not one of them because you come across on this board as such a lovely bloke.

yours

Fantonella Depardieu - head of harmony at Keep Turning Left plc inc

Dylan, that's very direct, but certainly points worth making. And points allowed to be made by such a respected forum elder orator.

Obviously no offense taken in spite of the provocative nature of your post. One mustn't rise to it these days otherwise we would both risk getting banned for arguing in the forum!

I am however a bit surprised , that your first thought is to suggest that the customer is somehow faulty (non-payer, artisan-damaging bargain hunter etc), or not fit for purpose (haughty expectations, not grateful enough).

But to answer your question, I can't be sure about how I am regarded. Notwithstanding my ignorance though, I shall ask around and alter my behaviour if it proves not to meet the standards you suggest.

Cheers

Garold

Ps. Dylan, what if one does all you suggest and becomes an industry-approved-customer, but still has the same predicament? What would be your explanation then?

 

[Seven Spades]

This is a bit off

Hang on a minute if the people you want to engage are any good they will be in demand and not sitting around waiting for you to call. There are any number of useless people who will come around straight away but I don't suppose you would want them to touch your boat?

If you use the same people time and again you build a relationship and they will normally try to meet your deadlines but it is not reasonable to expect them to always put you first unless your need is really pressing. Most jobs on boats can be scheduled in advance.

It make a good story but is probably a reflection on how good the people you want to use really are.

 

[Garold]

Hang on a minute if the people you want to engage are any good they will be in demand and not sitting around waiting for you to call. There are any number of useless people who will come around straight away but I don't suppose you would want them to touch your boat?

If you use the same people time and again you build a relationship and they will normally try to meet your deadlines but it is not reasonable to expect them to always put you first unless your need is really pressing. Most jobs on boats can be scheduled in advance.

It make a good story but is probably a reflection on how good the people you want to use really are.

If you're right I'm reassured. As with most things, I have done my research and chosen services and suppliers after much consideration so I guess I should feel that I may have made some sound choices.

However, if you are right, it also means that even in the depths of a nasty recession, those that do a good job manage to stay busy and get by.

Cheers

Garold