BSS and Thames Licence

[jennifern1301]

Hi, This is my 2nd post on here, and I have to say how impressed I was with the advice and help you were all prepared to offer me!!! I hope you can help me again.

I am bringing my sea going Fairline 29 back onto the Thames from SPP Guernsey in the next few weeks. I have absolutely no experience of the BSS or Thames Licensing procedure, but I think I am correct in thinking that I will need to get the boat through the BSS before I can put it on the Thames?

What generally, do I need to do to make my boat compliant? It currently has a sea toilet and no septic water tank - will I need to have this installed somewhere, or can I just remove the toilet and say I'm using it purely as a dayboat (which I will be)? Also I think it is quite expensive (around £500 I have been told) to get the Thames licence. Can I get this licence from the Marina, or do I have to apply for it?

As always, your advice is very gratefully received!

 

[boatone]

Thames Licence fees are calculated at a per square metre rate. Full details and application form can be found here:
http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/homeandleisure/recreation/129937.aspx
EA Boating website
http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/homeandleisure/recreation/129910.aspx
also
http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/homeandleisure/recreation/130919.aspx
Boat Safety Scheme
http://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/boat-examination

That should keep you in reading matter for a while!

As far as toilet is concerned it would be more economic to remove the sea toilet and install a porta potty type unit. I did this with a Princess 32 a few years back and it worked very well. Otherwise you will need to install a holding tank which will not be cheap (£500-£1k) or seal the toilet and manage without one.

If you are coming back onto the Thames through Teddington you could apply for a visitors licence which will buy you some time to get the BSS sorted out.

 

[teddington_lock]

Sadly not , if you are coming onto the thames at Tedders to base your boat on the thames permanently , you can't have a visitors licence.

You can have an unregistered report though , which is free.

 

[boatone]

But he'll be coming on to the river as a visitor to decide if he wants to stay !

 

[Momac]

My boat has a sea toilet with no holding tank . And it has a BSS certificate.
But it's on the River Trent not on the River Thames.

 

[boatone]

My boat has a sea toilet with no holding tank . And it has a BSS certificate.
But it's on the River Trent not on the River Thames.

EA regs require that toilets do not discharge into the river but that is not part of the BSS requirements. EA also separately requires that boat has a BSS certificate.

 

[teddington_lock]

But he'll be coming on to the river as a visitor to decide if he wants to stay !

Naughty .

If we know that it is coming to stay , we are duty bound to do an UR. Telling porkies to the lock staff is not cricket.

It's easier in the long run as well , no money to refund , no SPR forms to send in , etc

 

[boatone]

Naughty

I consider myself severely chastised, wrist slapped and bum walloped.

 

[Chill]

Naughty .

If we know that it is coming to stay , we are duty bound to do an UR. Telling porkies to the lock staff is not cricket.

It's easier in the long run as well , no money to refund , no SPR forms to send in , etc

Will you then get an unregistered report at each lock till you reach your new home marina?

What are the implications getting an unregistered report?

Will you be able to use the boat while waiting to get it tested?

 

[dash300]

Will you then get an unregistered report at each lock till you reach your new home marina?

What are the implications getting an unregistered report?

Will you be able to use the boat while waiting to get it tested?

In the olden days of the Thames Conservancy they would slap a lock ban on you either side of your home mooring until your boat was certified as compliant by the Inspector. As the OP has been open and honest I hope he will be given the opportunity to get his marina and a reasonable time to get himself compliant and issued with a nice shiney BSS.

 

[teddington_lock]

Will you then get an unregistered report at each lock till you reach your new home marina?

What are the implications getting an unregistered report?

Will you be able to use the boat while waiting to get it tested?

1. No

2. It shows that you have been seen using the boat on waters where it should be registered , and gives you a period of time to apply for your licence. We supply annual licence application forms with every UR we give out if you don't apply for your full annual within a set period , prosecution proceedings may start.

3. Yes , you can still use your boat on an UR , it has a section that you hand to the lock keeper at each lock , he / she signs it and notes the date , time and direction of travel.

Unfortunately there is no leeway to give people the opportunity to get to their marina , we are bound to issue an UR at the first lock they arrive at , usually a gateway like Tedders.

You don't have to have an UR , just get your paperwork sorted , licence applied for and on the boat before you even arrive.

I'm not trying to be a jobs worth , but the river is run very differently to the days of the TC and this is how we have to do things now.

 

[Antony Collis]

BSS says that you can keep the toilet without a tank as long as you have a valve fitted to the discharge line.

 

[Chill]

Thanks for the info Howard,

I wish I knew this when I bought my last boat as I bought a visitors licence while work was done to get the boat up to standard for the BSS, when it passed i then purchased an annual licence.

Heyho will know for the next time.

 

[rafiki_]

My boat has a sea toilet with no holding tank . And it has a BSS certificate.
But it's on the River Trent not on the River Thames.

I'm pretty sure that this is a mistake by the inspector. If you look at the BSC regs there should be no way the black water can discharge into the river. The OP is better using a chemical toilet, and removing the sea toilet.

 

[boatone]

As I understand it, if your boat is permanently based you cannot get a full annual license for the Thames without a Boat Safety Certificate and you cannot use the boat without the licence. As a license is needed if the boat is afloat on EA waters this is something of a catch 22 situation.
The EA will issue you with a "Red" licence which allows you to keep the boat afloat for a period of time without a BSS certificate but you are not permitted to actually use it until the BSS certificate is issued. So, if coming from other waters you need to get the BSS before putting the boat on EA waters or keep it on dry land until the certificate is sorted.

 

[Captain Coochie]

I think you need to explain what unregestered means to boaters when they come into Teddington . I was based at Twickenham for many years and was always offered UR rather than a day thing as i didnt need to pay and wasnt staying . At no point was i told it was a bad thing .
I then got a letter from the EA asking to pay my fee or get done by the rozzers so i paid but still based on the tidal .
I guess it was a while before i went back but was told that my fee paid was per year and not just a few hundred quid so i could come and go as i pleased . So for me that was alot of money wasted when a day / weekend pass would have done had it been explained properly .
You cant assume that people know the rules when they are used to not abiding by them .

 

[teddington_lock]

How long ago was this ?

At no point would a truly 'visiting' boat be offered an UR rather than a visitors licence .

An UR is only issued ( at Tedders ) for boats entering EA waters with the intention of being based permanently there , or for a boat that is known to be 'Thames based' ie lives above the lock and is not displaying one when it arrives or has a reason for not doing so ( launched at a slipway and we are the first available lock , needing a section 9 licence , and so on )

I am honestly struggling to get my head around what you are saying , that a lock keeper at teddington did you UR rather than sell you a visitors licence ?

 

[Captain Coochie]

7-8 years ago i guess . Its what happened and we all went UR although willing to pay the few quid if needed it just wasnt explained . Some times 3-5 boats all on a day out jolly up . Then you get a nasty letter from the EA and you wonder what you have done wrong .
UR was never explaind as a bad thing to do , it was just laughed at as a free day pass for the locals just down river as far as i was aware .

 

[boatone]

I am bringing my sea going Fairline 29 back onto the Thames from SPP Guernsey in the next few weeks.

ARe you intending to bring the boat back by sea/river or have it trucked up to the Thames and lifted in?

 

[TrueBlue]

There's an awfuil lot -

of fiddling about on this thread.
Two solutions come to mind:-
Option 1

• Come as a visitor,
• get a BSS cert while you are visiting,
• change your mind, say you're staying and convert upgrade to a full licence
• sorted

OK a bit naughty, but EA gets its money. You're entitled to change your mind. Rules are for the observance.
The risk you take is that there's something (serious) wrong with the boat and it takes a while to get a certificate.

Option 2:-

• Get a a short term mooring below Teddington and arrange for an examination.
• Fix the issues, if any
• get the cert
• and present yourself to T_L for his blessing.

Pop over to the BSS site Clicky Here, have a read through to see if there are any show stoppers. It's mostly about safety, fire extinguishers, loose wiring, stowage of gas cylinders and the like. Some issues are pedantic red tape, most are easily fixed.

There are lots of BSS examiners in the London area, so there should be some availability.

An alternative to Teddington is to stay over in Limehouse, St.Kats, South Dock.