BSC

[sonarbell]

I have a Fairline Mirage with 2 Volvo Engines installed (Outdrives). Surrounding the engine is a Compartment higher then the top of the engines. The front of this compartment slides out of 2 runners attached to the side pieces for access to the front of the engines. OK so far???
So when the engine hatch is lifted then the engines are seen to be in there own compartment, so to speak.
My bilge pump is beneath the engines.
What should I do regarding the rules in the BSC about pumping out oily bilge water.?
As an aside, my bilges are spotless, so it makes me mad as hell that yet again I have to modify a perfectly good boat to comply with some wallies recomendations.
And WHY CANT I JUST PUMP MY BILGE WATER THRU ONE OF THESE NICE MODERN BILGE WATER FILTERS THINGY'S THAT ONE CAN NOW BUY SO I DONT HAVE TO MODIFY F**K ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[steel_slug]

Re bilge pumps.

The regs do indeed require that there is no ''FIXED'' bilge pump in the ''oil tight'' area. This is to prevent polution should there be a major oil leak from the engine(s) and the auto bilge pump cuts in. As for the bilge water filters I think that a written approach to the enviroment agency (who are responsible for polution control even on BW waters) for their approval to fit one of the filters, and retain the pump, would be a good idea.

 

[BarryH]

Yep! The BSS is a pile of poo, but what can you do. I've been advised( tounge in cheek) to disconect the outlet and seal it up with a bung, or length of pipe with a solid bung. Then once you get the "Cert" just reconnect. I think the best way is to set up a rapour with the guy thats gonna test it!
What fuel do you use petrol or diesel. Have a word with coliholic, he had the same boat, so he'll know all the bits that'll cause you trouble.

Yeah! I know its running rough, but your lucky its running at all!!

 

[LORDNELSON]

My auto bilge pump is switched on by a no-float electrode called a Bilge Buddy. The details for the Bilge Buddy say that it will only operate if the electrodes are touched by water but will not activate if they are touched by a petroleum product. Apparently the device measures the resistance of liquids and hence works out if it is in water or not. Maybe this might help you in your problem? It is advertised in the Cruisermart Catalogue for 2001 (page 235). Barry

 

[BarryH]

Na! I gave up trying to make my boat comply ages ago. We very rarely take it onto the none tidal thames, so I just buy a visitors licence. Saves a whole heap of hassle and cost.

Yeah! I know its running rough, but your lucky its running at all!!

 

[Guest]

Re: BSS Lunacy

Presuming you might have diesel engines, think about this one. Your drip tray under the engine(s) is designed to contain any diesel or other oil spillage. BSS standards are almost as much about prevention of pollution as about safety aspects (or should I say PERCEIVED safety aspects). So in this laudable attempt to prevent pollution we have another wonderful standard, the one that says that all diesel filler deck fittings shall be arranged so that any spilt fuel is directed overboard, into the water. Instant pollution! Trouble is, the BSS standard makers don't understand the difference between petrol and diesel. The BSS is a jumble of sometimes sensible but more often stupid standards implemented by petty bureaucrats who should know better. In common with BarryH I simply removed my boat, in my case to Belgium rather than comply with a number of stupid petty standards which have no known or proven track record of safety implications. The EA have clearly been hell-bent for many years on cleaning up their waters, i.e. eliminating the boats, and the BSS is just another weapon in their armoury.

 

[sonarbell]

Nice idea, Thanks, but switch is not BSC compliant so therefore not a solution.

 

[sonarbell]

Nice idea. But I think the reply from MESSRS BSC would be, "We didnt think of it so you cant have it". Maybe a bit cynical I know but been boating inland too long to expect anything else from them.

 

[duncan]

do you even have drip trays on this boat?
surely the solution is to remove and resite the bilge pump forwards (which will make it more accessable anyhow), having slid in, or fitted, appropriate drip trays to the engine oil capacity of you engines?
Or am I missing something?

 

[coliholic]

Not quite sure what your saying here sonarbell.
<Surrounding the engine is a Compartment higher then the top of the engines. The front of this compartment slides out of 2 runners attached to the side pieces for access to the front of the engines. OK so far???>

Well no can't quite figure that. But anyway.

In August had my (ex now) Mirage BSC'd on the Ouse and passed fine, no probs at all. We had twin AQAD 30's on outdrives too. Under each engine was a little tray about 2 inches high covering the footprint of the engine, but fixed to the bottom of the hull, so couldn't get em out. They just caught any oil or diesel drips and then wipe it up from the tray. The bilge pump, with auto float switch, sits between the two centre engine bearers, i.e. between the two inner engine bearers, a gap of about 4 inches. A real bugger to get down to the bilge pump though 'cos it was right at the stern of the boat and siliconed in place. Worked OK and in the 3 years we owned the boat, never had to take it out. Anyway all that set up was perfectly OK with the BSC man who did my test, he never mentioned a thing about it.

Have you actually had your boat tested?

Maybe use the chappie I used, got him from the BSC website, PM me if you want his name\number. He lives in St Neots and is quite happy to travel, I know he does a lot of work at Ipswich and that's an hour and a half from St Neots, so depending on where you are (Midlands?) I'm sure he'd come up to you. Nice bloke, very helpful. When he did my test he said there should be a gas test point in the gas line and without one he'd have to fail the boat. Or he'd put one in for me. Charged a fiver for supplying it and fitting it there and then. Can't be bad can it. Total cost for the test and everything was £80 I think all in, so not expensive really.

Only other thing he picked up on was that the flexible rubber pipes to and from the engines to the main copper fuel feed pipes didn't have a date stamp on and he said I should get them changed before my next test in 4 years time, but they were OK for this time, since he could see they were in good condition.

One point I did find interesting was that the previous owner had fitted louvre vents in the main cabin door for ventilation purposes for the BSC. The examiner said that 'cos we had an Eberspacher fitted, the door vents were unneccesary. Eberspacher vents would act as the required ventilation for BSC purposes. I thought that was quite an interesting point.

Oh and our boat, Aquaholic is now on the Trent at Bourton Water I think, just outside Lincoln. New owner's name is Paul and I'm sure he'd let you have a look since you're in the same area ?? I guess.
<

 

[byron]

The BSS is a disaster for the River Authorities its many-fold nonsenses have driven literally hundreds and hundreds of boats off non-tidal waters.
They didn't have the common sense to have a 'Grandfather' clause in there to protect boats built before the brought the sodding thing in.

<font color=red> ô¿ô</font color=red>
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.freeware.mcmail.com/435.htm>http://www.freeware.mcmail.com/435.htm</A>[/b]

 

[sonarbell]

Thanks for that. My engines ar AQ130D's. petrols on outdrives if you dont know the model.. There are no supports under the engines as they literally hang from the transom. A previous owner has built around the engines a wooden compartment which is as high as the engines. The front of this is removable. My bilge pump sits between the engines bolted to the transom. I reckon I am going to have to Fibreglass in a piece of wood across the front of this compartment so as to isolate the engine bilge area from the rest of the boat. Then move the pump in front of this.
What a lot of work for a small bit of paper. Boat passed its BSC in 98 with no worries. Usual stuff regarding vents and gas test point. Mine also was picked up on the flexible fuel pipes, but I thought cos it was petrol, best to change anyway.
Thanks for the info.
Boat is currently on the Trent near Notts, but soon to be at Naburn on the Great Ouse.

 

[coliholic]

Aha got it. Now I understand. Petrols right, not diesels. And no engine bearers as such. Looked at your profile to see what engines you had and automatically thought the AQ130D's were diesel, 'cos mine were AQAD30's so similarish numbers and hence I thought had to be about the same engines. Silly me.

Anyway back to the plot. Why not just put in a couple of drip trays under the engines. Nick the wife's baking trays or just go to Tesco and buy a couple, or loads of other cheap options? But make sure the BSC man thinks they're permanently fixed. So a bit of silicone or sikaflex round 'em or bolts through the bottom of the hull, though that might be a tad drastic.

The object being to stop any oil\petrol dripping off the engines into the bilge and then being pumped overboard and causing pollution. So rather than go through complicated bilge pump routine, just put a tray under them. Would that work? Seems to be what most boats I've looked at do.

On our earlier boat a Freeman 27 we couldn't get a tray under the engine, it was too low, so had to make a complicated series of little bulkheads,supposedly to catch any drips. Only trouble was I couldn't fibreglass them in in case I needed to remove prop shaft or gearbox, so stuck 'em in with a little bit of silicon bathroom sealant. Oh how the BSC man laughed at that. Wouldn't let me get away with that first time. So then I painted it all the same colour as the rest of the bilge and on retest he never spotted it.

All good fun though this BSC stuff eh?

 

[sonarbell]

Thanks for the reply. Just about sum's up the BSC really. I have always realised what I had to do, just thought someone might come up with something amazing. Have been putting it off too long. Test is up in March so need to address it this winter.
Have access to stainless fabrication workshop, so will make a pattern for each engine and make something nice in 316L stainless (Yummy Yummy).

 

[Chris_d]

I wouldn't do a thing until its been tested, the examiners are pretty sensible really,
I have a single petrol with the pump in the same compartment with longitudinal bearers and rear bulkhead like yours, the examiner said because to fit a separate tray would require removing the engine I didn't have to do it, and because it was petrol and there was no where else to site the pump, the pump could stay, this was it was because it was a sea going boat as well, so not having a bilge pump in a good position was more dangerous.
Of course all this is not in your little book, but thats why the examiners go on a course so they can take a considered approach. Assuming you get a good bloke to do yours its all really very simple, just don't do loads of work to the letter of the guide until its been checked.

 

[byron]

Chris whilst I agree its true some Examiners are more realistic than others, some are absolutely ridiculously pedantic. No names no pack drill but there's one we both know whom I wouldn't let within a Cable's length of my boat.

<font color=red> ô¿ô</font color=red>
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.freeware.mcmail.com/435.htm>http://www.freeware.mcmail.com/435.htm</A>[/b]

 

[Guest]

The BSS only require that the bilge pump is not 'Fixed' within the oil tight area. So if it is not secured in any way the examiner will not fail it if it can be lifted out of the oil tight area.
Note that it is no longer the BSC it is the BSSC since many items are now advisory it was decided that the name should change to Boat Safety Scheme Certificate.

 

[coliholic]

Agree with Chris on this Sonarbell, don't do any work till you've had the survey done. I'm pretty sure it's a one time fee, passs or fail and they don't recharge for a re-test if they fail you first time, so worth getting the guy in to test it, then fix what he fails it on, not what you think he might fail it on. If you see the logic.

And not sure that a bilge pump is actually required for the test anyway. If not, then no real problem is there, just take it out for the test. I did that with spare petrol for the outboard. Normally keep it in a can in a step\box in the cockpit, (yes I know, but there's nowhere else really) and for the test just put the can on the pontoon. He was quite happy about that 'cos it wasn't on the boat see.

Just had a quick flip through my BSSC guide and can't immediately spot any mention of bilge pumps, so if not mentioned, then not required and hence not testable. Though someone else might know different.

You do have the free BSSC guide book don't you? The one issued in Jan 2002? If not EA, BW or BSC will send you one FREE. EA's number is 01932 201120; BW 0118 953 5650 and BSC 01923 201278

If you haven't got their guide, you should. If for no other reason than to leave it on the boat when the tester turns up so he can see you're taking it all seriously. Cough cough.

 

[Chris_d]

Yes I agree, we've all heard the stories of non raised letters on filler labels etc.. but I think these are all a bit exaggerated and become something like urban (riverbank?) myths. Are you refering to the examiner whos boat is at the 4th bridge and 1 lock up from you? I was going to use him for this years retest.

 

[byron]

Nope! In fact can't think who that is. I can however thoroughly reccomend Bill Kane as will others.

<font color=red> ô¿ô</font color=red>
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.freeware.mcmail.com/435.htm>http://www.freeware.mcmail.com/435.htm</A>[/b]