Brown water

Endeavourquay

Endeavourquay

Well-Known Member
Joined
29 Aug 2007
Messages
218
Location
Gosport
www.endeavourchandlery.co.uk
My Vire (yes I know) engine has been refusing to start recently, so today I took the spark plug out to check for a spark, and
a, there is an orange spark,
b, there is brown water shooting out of the hole that the spark plug should be in.
What might have happened and how can I rectify it?
Thank you all in anticipation (and no, I cant afford to chuck it overboard and get a nice diesel one /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif)
 
It sounds like you've filled the exhaust with water whilst trying to start (the massive expansion of hot exhaust gases normally a) boils the water to steam and b) expells it violently.

First, immediately disconnect the exhaust to allow it to drain completely and spin the motor over with the water disconnected from the exhaust so as to push any remaining water out of the engine. Spray WD40 through the plughole to help displace water and prevent rust.

Now continue with the usual fuel & spark checks. Reassemble the exhaust and get it running as soon as possible... the fuel charge will also oil the bore.

There are a number of unusual quirks in getting a Vire to run. For example, I recall a friend's engine which would not throttle back to tick over. On the overrun it fouled the plug - we hit Hythe marina gates! That turned out to be the pressure equalization hole in the Delorto chainsaw carburettor growing closed in the salty marine environment.

Best of luck!
 
Ah, I never thought of taking the exhaust off, its really hard to get at that end, thats going to be an afterwork in the dark with a torch job by the sound of it.
So if thats the reason for the water, what might the reason for it not starting be?
 
...is it coz brown water isn't going to go bang when you apply a spark... or was it a rhetorical question?

sorry that was probably mean. If it turns over and doesn't start then no fuel or no spark or both.
 
I seem to remember that these engines suffered from expansion chamber water jacket corrosion. Water may be entering that way.
Hope that Varne27's theory is correct, that's the obvious one to check first.
 
just in case it's corrosion causing water to enter the engine via an exhaust outlet or a water inlet, is it worth turning off all the associated seacocks till you can fix the prob ?
 
Isn't the Vire one of those unmentionable "sub piston induction" monsters with fuel by pass ports in the cylinder wall? Can't remember. If so check the crankcase too to see if that is full of water... /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif sorry
 
Hi EQ.

Please believe me when I say I am a better cook than mechanic. That is if you like burnt boiled eggs /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

However you sound a bit lost and as I am only up the road from you I would happily come down to LOOK and maybe UNDO a few things.

Seriously, my first thoughts are along the lines that you may have cranked the engine too long which, as has been said, can fill the exhaust with water and then fill the cylinder(s). I know this can happen as it happened to a friend of mine. Well his engine!

I really would only be bringing an aspirin to a car crash but if you need a bit of support I'll be there.

Do you have a new spark plug?

Rgds

Steve
 
It was whilst trying a new spark plug that I discovered the water, it was showering me, I have been advised to get the water out as fast as possible and pour oil in the hole to help prevent corrosion, gently turning her over to spread it.
I did try to start her quite a few times so I guess the water could have drawn up that way, If the orange spark is indiicating the timing isnt right to 'catch ' and start the engine, then that might explain the problem, the timing has been out before.
Engines, cant live with 'em, cant live without! /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
 
If water is in the cylinder, then it is almost certainly also in the crankcase via the transfer ports. This could cause serious damage if not removed quickly. There is, IIRC a drain plug at the base of the crankcase for draining fuel, if "over-choked". Remove this and look for water coming out. The Vire, being a two stroke, has roller bearing big end. needle roller little end and roller main bearings.. If they corrode, failure will follow very rapidly, giving a sizeable hit in the wallet. Remove the carb and pour oil into the crankcase to protect them and try to displace the water.Better still, get the engine running as a matter of urgency.
Add:- to get oil into the crankcase, set the piston at the top of its stroke.
 
An update, I managed to get a lot of water out via the spark plug hole, and I even got it running for five minutes, so Ive left it with a little oil poured in till tonight when someone is going to locate the drain plug for me and try and remove the rest of the water.
There are mutterings of it being very very bad and I will need it stripped down and bearings replaced /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
 
If it has been run, then hopefully there will no longer be any water in the crankcase. The charge is transferred through the crankcase under pressure of the descending piston. It is this transfer of the fuel throughout the engine which lubricates it all - the oil being mixed in the petrol. It will also have cleared any remaining water in the exhaust. Maybe you've got it beat!
Rob.
 
Pleased to hear that it ran, this, in itself, would get rid of nearly all of the water in the crankcase. Can you run it for a length of time at running temperature? If you can, this is perhaps the best way of drying it out. I suggest increasing the oil/fuel ratio, if yours is a 50:1 engine, to say 25:1 while doing this, but have a spare plug handy. Best of luck, but seawater is nasty stuff on bearings, how long had it been there? The brown colour suggests corrosion has set in, in which case the prognosis is not good.
 
On my Vire 6 there is a pipe from the water inlet to the block, running off to the manifold. This has a small tap to control the flow of water cooling the exhaust. I have since adapted it so that I can open and close the tap without having to get into the engine compartment.
When I had the same problem as yours, I found that it was when this tap was left open and water allowed to pass into the manifold, whilst trying to start the engine.
The port on the cylinder was opening when the piston moved down and it was sucking water from the manifold back into the cylinder. (The water pipe connection to the manifold is only about 4 inches from the block).
The simple cure was to make sure that the exhaust coolant tap was not opened until the engine had started. It is, of course absolutely essential that it is opened soon after the engine starts to run or everything gets a bit HOT.
I did originally try using a solonoid switch on this pipe but of course the sea water rusted the soft metal plunger inside. Now I use a more more manual method.
 
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