Brokers and surveyors in Croatia

[Bellacruiser]

Hope this is the best place to post this!

We're a married couple, mid-thirties, doing well financially, very low overheads, recession-proof jobs insofar as that's possible. No kids, no pets, no car and no plans for any of the above (would love a dog but impractical!).

We like good food etc but really have very cheap hobbies and low outgoings. Disposable income goes in savings or on travel generally and bareboat chartering specifically. So the plan is to buy our own boat, keep it in the Med/Adriatic, enjoy a few seasons on it "holidaying", familiarising and upgrading and then in 2022 take a career break and go sailing.

The long and short of that is decided; a boat is maybe (definitely?! ) not the best financial investment but our money, our risk etc

Anyway, we'd primarily like to buy in Croatia, second being Greece or Italy (because we want to keep it in Croatia and don't want to have to relocate a new-to-us boat across the Med if possible). We're eyeing 2005-2010 "higher-end" production boats 11-12m. Have a shortlist of preferred models and are starting our search when we head on bareboat trips next week and in September. We've read everything we can get our hands on regarding what to look for, surveys, negotiating etc. Costed all the "extras" in a spreadsheet so we can compare boats that come with/without things etc.

We have lists from Google and old forum posts regarding brokers/surveyors, but my question to the forum , any personal (and recent-ish) recommendations for brokers in Croatia to favour, or surveyors (local or UK-will-travel)? Equally receptive to horror stories but if PM preferred; I can promise discretion! Thank you in advance

 

[RichardS]

I believe that the large charter companies like Sunsail/The Moorings broker a lot of their own boats but it depends upon whether an ex-charter boat is what you are looking for. We often see rows of them outside the Marina Agana charter base and they are all for sale.

I bought my cat through The Moorings and had a survey done by a local Croatian surveyor 5 years ago. I got a lot of photos in a nice report but my feeling is that is was all rather superficial although he did pick up a few issues that I missed on my inspection. To be fair, the boat was very well presented by The Moorings was there was not a lot to pick up on. His English was good. I can look up his email address if you are interested. I think he was based in Split.

Richard

 

[Bellacruiser]

Thanks, surveyor details would be really helpful if they’re to hand.

We do keep an eye on Sunsail/Moorings but nothing of interest lately, partly as they stick with specific models and we want as-close-to but under 12m. In the monohulls they’re mainly the 36i and 409. Too small or too big!

 

[michael_w]

Having had two suspect surveys (one Dutch, the other German) I would always send a chap from the UK. Flights are cheap, and you know where to find him if it goes wobbly.

 

[Bellacruiser]

Having had two suspect surveys (one Dutch, the other German) I would always send a chap from the UK. Flights are cheap, and you know where to find him if it goes wobbly.

Thanks. We’ve already reached out to one Brit who appears to be UK-based but spends some of the season/shoulder season in Croatia which kinda kills two birds with one stone! We’re more than happy to fly a UK surveyor out if needs be if a few hundred quid now is money well spent!

 

[Baggywrinkle]

I bought my boat as a 11 year old ex-charter boat from a Croatian charter company in 2011. I used a surveyor out of Split who (eventually) produced a detailed report on the boat .... he didn't really tell me much I hadn't already figured out but he did the tonnage measurement for the Part 1 UK ships registry at the same time. PM me if you want the full story - he's still in business in Split.

Here is how it went for us ...

Croatian brokers are on the whole a mixed bag, like anywhere. I have personal experience of Selymar, Bach Yachting, Almissani d.o.o. They were very secretive about the boats owners and some asked to sign paperwork to ensure they got their commission if you went ahead with a sale. They were paranoid about you cutting a deal behind their back - use your intuition to assess their reliability and honesty - don't listen to their sales pitch, let the boat do the talking. Be firm if it is not the boat for you. I went direct to the charter companies themselves and asked what they had for sale, sometimes boats were suggested which weren't yet advertised or you can find them on the charter company web sites - they were generally cheaper this way. Brokers dealt in both charter boats and private boats.

If contemplating an ex-charter boat, the boats are usually put up for sale at the beginning of their last charter season, if you find one you like then ask the company to charter it for a week with the charter cost refunded if you subsequently purchase the boat - it worked for us - don't forget to get permission for a haul-out at your cost. Take it for a week and go through everything with a fine tooth comb, get the floors up and photograph every nook and cranny, test every piece of equipment and finally, get it hauled out at a marina and check the keel, rudder, saildrive/shaft, prop etc. It's useful to ask the marina staff for their opinion while the thing is hanging in the slings ... very interesting what you learn about the charter companies, their reputation and what they know about the various types of boat. You can usually tell by how well the wiring and other "repairs" have been executed.

If you find anything you don't like - for us that meant any hull grazing in the gel-coat, inside or out ( looks a bit like a spiders web indicating impact), or any damage to the interior furniture or structural members round the back end of the keel (grounding) - then walk away and enjoy the holiday - indications of repairs are also a matter for consideration, done properly the boat will be fine, but it must be reflected in the price. Charter companies sell boats on for a reason, and they always dispose of their "worst" boats first.

Assuming all goes well, you'll be asked for a deposit - this must be refundable and subject to survey, and you want the survey at the end of the season, when you take over the boat. Be very careful as the charter company may well swap equipment out over the season and replace it with their worst components, the boat we were intending to buy somehow lost a very good Victron battery charger which was replaced by an ancient piece of junk - excuse was "maintenance" during the season and the Victron had failed ... yeah right. Unfortunately our chosen boat got grounded during its final season and we took another boat from their fleet for the same price which incurred extra survey cost.

In the end it all worked out and we've had a great 9 years - the boat is how we want it with all our own gear on it - better than what you find on a normal charter boat - so we are very happy. It is a bit of a minefield though. We got our 1999 Bav 36 in 2011 for €35k and have now spent more on marina fees than the cost of the boat.

Good Luck!!!

 

[Bellacruiser]

Wow, thank you for taking the time to write that reply! If you’re happy to share bit more about the survey experience privately it would be hugely appreciated

We’re strongly considering ex-charter boats, partly out of necessity as the what and where we want means 90% of boats we see are ex-charter. Have had some advice not to touch them with a barge pole but having chartered many times in the med, charter companies aren’t all created equal and we believe that any boat can be worth it if the price is right and you have as much information and knowledge (and a good surveyor!) as possible.

We’ve also inadvertently done what you suggested but backwards; we wanted to get onboard our “on paper” preferred model to get a feel for general handling, size/space/layout/to benchmark the 40hp and figure if we could lose some power and consider the 30hp ones; and wanted to book a holiday anyway so have chartered one in September. We’ve since realised that the same boat is for sale (despite efforts to blur the name etc the broker listing uses some of the same photos as the charter listing. We’re going to contact the charter company in a few weeks and ask if they will discuss direct - partly thought this was cheeky but of course saves them money. Wish I knew what brokers would charge them! If first impressions are good we’ll go over it very closely. Flights won’t allow for a haul out this time but I’ll send the other half down with his snorkel and if any discussions go well we can get back there easy enough.

As for inventory, if we want it I will be listing and photographing it for annexing to contract! Highly suspicious what happened to your battery charger! Did your contract allow for a full right of rejection or just negotiation/only rejection for material defects?

 

[houldsworth]

Yacht surveyor on boat in Croatia, not sure where but will travel.
https://www.leonjenningsyachtsurveys.co.uk
leonjennings533@icloud.com
Charles

 

[Bellacruiser]

Yacht surveyor on boat in Croatia, not sure where but will travel.
https://www.leonjenningsyachtsurveys.co.uk
leonjennings533@icloud.com
Charles

Thanks Charles. We spoke with Leon last week and he seems like a good option but keen to do our due diligence/gather recommendations . Have you used him yourself or know anyone who has?

 

[houldsworth]

I know him as I have taken on his berth in Gouvia, Corfu and can trust him.
But never used him for survey.
Charles

 

[Bellacruiser]

I know him as I have taken on his berth in Gouvia, Corfu and can trust him.
But never used him for survey.
Charles

Thanks. Good to hear

 

[Maritimus]

Good day gents!

There are capable surveyors in Croatia as well. What will happen if British surveyor will find damages on keel area? How he will evaluate damage? He need ultra-sound device. If he will have to check hull hardness he will need Barcol tester. Checking hull moisture is regular inspection but the only professional instrument is Sovereign Quantum Marine which is big box. Carrying all equipment with him in plane is quite load and I never saw one fully equipped. Maritimus Consultant is leading surveyor company in Adriatic. We are sworn court surveyors and IIMS full members. More about us you can find o our web page www.maritimus-consultant.hr

Regards Maritimus Team

 

[Bellacruiser]

Good day gents!

There are capable surveyors in Croatia as well. What will happen if British surveyor will find damages on keel area? How he will evaluate damage? He need ultra-sound device. If he will have to check hull hardness he will need Barcol tester. Checking hull moisture is regular inspection but the only professional instrument is Sovereign Quantum Marine which is big box. Carrying all equipment with him in plane is quite load and I never saw one fully equipped. Maritimus Consultant is leading surveyor company in Adriatic. We are sworn court surveyors and IIMS full members. More about us you can find o our web page www.maritimus-consultant.hr

Regards Maritimus Team

Hi Maritimus team

You’ll be pleased to hear that after doing our research and considering our options, it was your team we arranged to do our survey in autumn last year. I have since recommended you when I’ve been asked on this forum and others

 

[Maritimus]

Hi Bellacruiser!

Many thanks for your post. We are really trying to be "simply the best" . Hope that you enjoy your toy.

Regards Sinisa