Broken hydraulic pump from passerel

BartW

BartW

Well-Known Member
Joined
9 Oct 2007
Messages
5,236
Location
Belgium
www.amptec.be
Due to a faulty contact during rough sea,
The pump has been pushing out the passerel against the closed gate for several hours.
Due to this the electric motor is burned

Here some pics and a drawing of the motor

IMG_3047.jpg


IMG_3052.jpg


IMG_3051.jpg


Hydraulic%20pump.jpg



We are trying to find such a motor in Italy or in Belgium,
But that seems to be very difficult, so far we didn’t find it,

One supplier suggested to “rewind” the electric motor, that’s an option,
or does anybody have a good source for all kind of hydraulic pump parts ?

Coincidently here in Italy we are moored alongside,
And will try to get other berths alongside the coming day’s / weeks.
But in some harbours this is impossible,
We stil can get the passerel deployed manually but that is very annoying

For future,
It would make sense to have a spare hydraulic pump onboard,
One that could serve as a replacement for one of the 4 pumps we have:
Passerel , rudder, crane, hi-lo platform

any advice is welcome, thanks !
 
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Hi Bart
I had EXACTLY this problem and burned out my motor. To stop it happening again I have put the contacts into double water proof boxes (box inside a box). The new motor cost me about €1500, last year.

After that problem, I bought a whole complete Besenzoni brand new hydraulic pack in the Fairline bankruptcy. The whole tank, motor, valves, gauges, complete, assembled. I can cannibalise it or swap the whole thing (just switch over the hoses and the power supplies) so that I can be up and running in a couple of days if I ever get a passerelle problem again

I'm only telling you this in case any of it helps you out. Do you want the whole hydraulic pack, and make a complete swap? (it has 4 double acting valves - up/down, carriage in/out, telescope in/out, transom door open/close. I don't have the spec of it to hand - it is in my place in France. I do not think the motor will fit yours (square flange?) but I'm not 100% sure and of course I can send it to you to try. The label off the motor and the pack itself are pictured below (not mine but exact same spec)

9B8BB92D-EC2E-4AF1-925E-95088DE13581.jpg

29BE640B-E113-4C40-9807-6345686E192A.jpg



Also here are some possibilities:
1. http://coastalrides.co.uk/pumps---motors?product_id=14648. This as you will see is a complete H+B hydraulic pack, which you already have. You can see whether your H+B motor will fit your passerelle, and if yes, buy this. I strongly recommend Coastal Rides for this sort of equipment, despite their bad reputation on here. I have never had a problem and I have bought well over €5-10k of spares from them

2. This is a long shot - 230v motor! http://coastalrides.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=15721

By the way, coastal rides are good on international deliveries.

My pack/new motor has a heat sensor on the motor body that goes open circuit when hot, stopping the motor if it overheads. You just wire it to the main relay. This is worth installing! (Shutting door after horde has bolted...!)

Finally and perhaps I should have said firstly, contact poster on here Searanger Ancaster - he runs a hydraulics parts supply business and what he doesn't know is not worth knowing. He has supplied lots of hydraulics to my brother's boat for his Sliepner stabiliser retro fit project
 
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jfm said:
Do you want the whole hydraulic pack, and make a complete swap? .......
Click to expand...

thanks for your kind offer John,
but I'm not going to take this up, and leave you your "perfect" spare part,
even as a temporary solution it is quite a faff, adapting the hose connections (my pump uses 2 different diameters)
and fitting the pump reliably in place. I'll better buy a completely new unit then.

lots of usefull info here,

thanks for the link to CR and Searanger,
will defo consider them...

I had already send a mail to Sebastian at H&B to asc them about the brand they use,
(when I want to buy a complete new unit, prefer to have the same brand)

the HB unit in your link is unfortunately 12V, this would be doable, for a urgent repair, but the motor doesn't fit,
so I'm not going to buy this as a spare part
The price is tempting dough, I'll check the power on mine, to see if that 12V model would be powerfull enought for our hi lo platform, difficult acces to see the name plate on my pump

good advice on the heat sensor !
swmbo adviced to place a general passerel on/ off switch (in the relay controll wire) to prevent this happening....

my options so far are:
- re-winding the old motor
- order a complete new unit, with 4x two way valves...

do you have any idea what kind of pressure your passerel pump is set at ?
mine doesn't have a pressure gauge,
I think it doesn't need a lot of pressure for the passerel functions,
but I need to give a pressure value when I buy a new pump...
 
bad luck Bart :(

1st why do you keep on talking about buying a pump, IMHO you should just focus on getting a motor that fits...
Seems to be similar size to the one I have on my passerelle, only I'll probably be there late at night to have a quick look at it.

2nd I don't see how you can unify your hydraulic systems or get a "spare" that would do passerelle, hi-lo, crane et al, I doubt they work on same volumes and pressures although they wouldn't be that far off.
motor size reminds me of truck starter motor size and with the external relay looks familiar. Obviously different coupling so not really of any use unless you got a proper workshop there.

I'd recommend to try and unearth the label or engraving on the pump coupled to this motor. This way you can contact the builder directly (not the guys that assembled the passerelle is it a besenzoni?) and get some reasonable price.
I'd also get a second motor and make sure I rewind this and keep it as spare. If you have problems finding someone to properly rewire the burnt motor we have 2 excellent companies down here, but it's a heavyish item so probably not worth it.

I like John's idea on thermal cut I could do with a few of them around MiToS.
John, it's not just a matter of getting a beefy one I assume you have to resort to a light small one you can tie-wrap around the motor and then this feeds to a relay to keep the main hi(gher) Amp power to the motor going until it warms up.
Any pointers/ideas on what you've used most welcomed!


good luck!

Cheers

V.
 
Bart I'm a bit confused too because you are talking about a hydraulic pump when it looks like you need a new electric motor. One of my machinery suppliers is not far from Venice and it is just possible they might have some possible contacts for the motor if you can post the manufacturer, model no, serial no etc. Maybe take some photos of any markings on the motor and put them on the thread. No promises at all but I can try

Yes the electric motor could possibly be rewound. I had to have it done on a motor on my boat when it was in Croatia and I couldn't get a replacement
 
@vas and Mike,

indeed I just need a new or a rewound electric motor,
but there is absolutely no indication of brand or type number on the pump nor the motor.
The passerel is a old Gandola model (company doesn't exist anymore) but I believe this pump is not orriginal. (looks too new to me)
I have been in touch with the former captain and workers on the boat, but none could point me the supplier of this pump

I have been googling pictures for hours, but didn't find a pump nor a motor that came close to my model,
apart from a chinese model at alibaba... min quantity 200pcs...

rewounding the motor seems the best option but could take some time,
throwing in 2000 euro or so, for a new pump, would buy me more comfort the remaining 5 weeks on the boat,
and I could take my time to have the old motor rewound, so leaving me a spare pump assembly.
 
BartW said:
I googled the only single number that is on the motor, (looked like a serial number)
and that gave me this:

https://campe-fahrzeugbedarf.de/DC-Motore/Efel---408_9147.html

hey ho !
Click to expand...

bingo!

not bad for 200euro or so, post them the dims and see what they come up with.

Mind, I'd try v.hard to find an marks on the pump! there must be something stamped (on mine it's on the alloy iirc) then you'd probably be able to find how many revs it needs else you run the danger of getting a motor that the passerele moves up and down in seconds or in hours...

I understand the general idea of a full assembly but I personally would prefer to eat that in cookies, chocolates and drink rather than 2k worth of metal :p

cheers

V.
 
Looks like you found the motor Bart, and at a good price:encouragement:

I don't know pressure of mine but can look at weekend. I expect usually these things work at modest pressure for hydraulics, like say 100 bar, but I don't know for sure

I see yes that H+B unit is 12v, sorry. What a pity - it would be worth buying if 24v. Anyway you need 1.2kw (from your link to the new motor) and the H+B is only 0.7kw so wont work in this case

Themal cut out is built into my new Besenzoni motor but you can buy them like this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mira-Go-Z...551d851&pid=100005&rk=2&rkt=6&sd=150553989837. Just strap it to motor casing. It is normally closed circuit, and goes open circuit at about 60 degrees, because these are mainly used in electric showers. 60 degrees feels ideal for a passerelle motor on a boat, and very cheap, and if it fails you just bypass/hotwire it in 30 seconds. They tend to fail "open circuit" when they fail. You can buy more expensive thermal cut outs https://www.unventedcomponentseurope.com/hs-95612597.html with different temperatures, and imho 90deg woud be better than 60, but the cheap 60 deg shower switches seem to make sense in this application. You obviously wire it in series into the relay coil circuit for the pump motor
 
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Wow, thats a bit of a result, Bart! Well done. I hope you're up and running soon
 
Had the same issue Nov 14 on the del trip -2 nd day blow up f7 on the beam -Paserelle pad got wet it extended on its own
Smoke in the crew cabin ( motor + pump under aft bunk )
Burnt out motor -
How ever broker sent a guy to Corsica with new motor - del skipper fitted it -all good
Looks the same -
If you have probs I can put you intouch -with broker ( Itama expert -+ all things Italian ) who will help
Mention "Fiammetta "
 
as we are changing location every day,
I didn't want to take the risk shipping the motor to a marina on our route,

so had the new motor delivered last Friday to my company in Belgium,
and today the new guests from Belgium arrived with the motor in their Luggage.
swapped the motor and a few small relay's, and passerel is up and running !


winterjob todo: change the inside of the passerel controll box with "decent " relay's
 
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vas said:
don't forget to restore/rebuilt/rewind the motor and keep it as a spare as well
Click to expand...

I think I'll just order another one for spare,
rewounding with all the hassle included wouldn't be far off 205,-euro ex vat
at least not in Belgium ;-)
 
BartW said:
as we are changing location every day,
I didn't want to take the risk shipping the motor to a marina on our route,

so had the new motor delivered last Friday to my company in Belgium,
and today the new guests from Belgium arrived with the motor in their Luggage.
swapped the motor and a few small relay's, and passerel is up and running !


winterjob todo: change the inside of the passerel controll box with "decent " relay's
Click to expand...

That's a great result Bart, good going. One
 
BartW said:
I think I'll just order another one for spare,
rewounding with all the hassle included wouldn't be far off 205,-euro ex vat
at least not in Belgium ;-)
Click to expand...

pretty sure it's much cheaper down here, but then posting a few kg motor back and forth with cover that.
I;ll check anyway out of curiosity.

cheers

V.
 
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