British yacht Kersti sinks

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Gerry

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www.gerryantics.blogspot.com
A British entry for the Bluewater Rally sunk off Cartagena Colombia on Friday 27th November, Jeff and Ruth Morris were both rescued by other cruisers.
http://www.sail-world.com/Australia/Blue-Water-Rally-yacht-sinks---cruisers-to-the-rescue/63931

It's been a busy time for the emergency services in the western Caribbean this week;
US yacht Columbine was hard aground off the West coast of Cuba
US motor yacht Great Escape is aground in the Sapodilla Cays, Belize. Abandoned and taking on water.


www.gerryantics.blogspot.com
 
I am always amazed by these stories. they must be fairly experienced to be in that location and if there was no collision why could they no identify the source of the leak? How many through hull fittings are there. Heads, galley, logs I am fairly sure I could locate all of these in the dark. If the bilge pump cold not cope then there surly must be a big leak somewhere.

A very odd report.
 
Seven Spades said:
I am always amazed by these stories. they must be fairly experienced to be in that location and if there was no collision why could they no identify the source of the leak? How many through hull fittings are there. Heads, galley, logs I am fairly sure I could locate all of these in the dark. If the bilge pump cold not cope then there surly must be a big leak somewhere.

A very odd report.
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Typically once a boat is seriously flooded bilge pumps start to fail because of debris in the water choking the pump. I think the lesson here is to check bilges frequently while at sea so that you have a chance of dealing with the leak before it becomes a crisis.
 
I believe the navy sail training boats still 'sound' the bilges at the change of watch?

Much as I am no great fan of yet more electronic technology on boats, some sort of bilge alarm would seem sensible, especially at night with crew asleep or on watch in the cockpit.


In the best traditions of PBO, how about a wooden dowel with a wee
childs bell on the top that floats up through a bit of plastic tube and 'pops' out of a hole in the cabin sole, ringing the bells of doom to the dozing crew? I am sure the boffins on here could work that up into something..
 
My boat is eleven years old and does not have either a bilge alarm not an automatic bilge pump all I have is a manual pump in the cockpit. How typical is this?
 
I think I must have a bit of a bilge pump fetish, but if you sail offshore then maybe it's no bad thing!

We have an electric pump, two manual pumps, one in the forward heads and one in the cockpit.

After helping in an attempted rescue of a boat that subsequently sank in Panama we also invested in a mobile high volume manual pump that is kept mounted on a piece of wood, ready to be used wherever and whenever necessary.

When on a passage,particularly in unexpectedly rough seas we will check the bilges on a regular basis. We have found that there can be considerable ingress through the chain pipe if it is not completely blocked.

Maybe Kersti had a problem with that?

www.gerryantics.blogspot.com
 
pumps

I have an auto bilge pump,a switched electric,and 2 manual,one below .one in cockpit.When on passage I routinely check bige at 2hr intervals.

Sailing single handed ,I don't know who's going to operate the second manual pump!

What nobody's mentioned is the type of boat Kersti was,or did I miss that?
 
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An american mate had a rotary bilge pump that had a heavy flywheel effect and could move lots of water.Standard bilge pumps are not much use in a situation of major ingress.Under Spanish lawe I was required to carry 4 galvanized buckets two of which had to have 27.5 mtres of lanyard attached.I spoke to a passing Admiral in the inspection office and he reduced it to two buckets!
 
Blueboatman said:
Much as I am no great fan of yet more electronic technology on boats, some sort of bilge alarm would seem sensible, especially at night with crew asleep or on watch in the cockpit.

In the best traditions of PBO, how about a wooden dowel with a wee
childs bell on the top that floats up through a bit of plastic tube and 'pops' out of a hole in the cabin sole, ringing the bells of doom to the dozing crew? I am sure the boffins on here could work that up into something..
Click to expand...

I design this sort of equipment and for less than £15 you could have an electronic bilge alarm that would wake the dead and all those in Davy-Jones's Locker! :eek:
 
Gerry said:
I think I must have a bit of a bilge pump fetish, but if you sail offshore then maybe it's no bad thing!

We have an electric pump, two manual pumps, one in the forward heads and one in the cockpit.

After helping in an attempted rescue of a boat that subsequently sank in Panama we also invested in a mobile high volume manual pump that is kept mounted on a piece of wood, ready to be used wherever and whenever necessary.

When on a passage,particularly in unexpectedly rough seas we will check the bilges on a regular basis. We have found that there can be considerable ingress through the chain pipe if it is not completely blocked.

Maybe Kersti had a problem with that?

www.gerryantics.blogspot.com
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If you are really in trouble you can always disconnect the raw water engine intake and use the engine as another pump (turn the seacock off first!), switch on any shower drain pumps and even use the pumps for the heads or holding tanks.
 
jonic said:
If you are really in trouble you can always disconnect the raw water engine intake and use the engine as another pump (turn the seacock off first!), switch on any shower drain pumps and even use the pumps for the heads or holding tanks.
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It is always a very good idea if your marine engine is raw water cooled to have a "T" branch and stop cock installed so that you are able to switch to bilge water cooling if the water inside the boat becomes excessive. ;)
 
lenseman said:
It is always a very good idea if your marine engine is raw water cooled to have a "T" branch and stop cock installed so that you are able to switch to bilge water cooling if the water inside the boat becomes excessive. ;)
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Hmmm....I feel another "project" coming on.
 
Watertight Bulkheads and Pumps - Some Idle Musing

Quite interesting how the article's editor is led to the fact that either the toilet has leaked or a seacock has failed. Not much evidence to declare a fact though, at least from the article.

It must have been a reasonably big leak because they didn't have time to salvage much. Perhaps keel area leaking. The bow down aspect could simply be how the water gathered and maybe doesn't automatically lead to a leak in the forward section.

Having read a few articles over the years on sinking when the water is above the floor boards it starts to get hard to find anything. In one report the sailor stated that the floating floor boards became really hazardous as the yacht rolled around. With the water at his knees he was having to stick his head under and search for leaks while trying to avoid getting whacked by a floating cabin sole. One of the lessons he stated was to fasten the cabin sole down as walking about became dangerous as there were gaps to trip you up.

Yachts which are classified as Category 0 must have a collision bulkhead which is water tight. This usually is the bulkhead between the saloon and fore cabin. I don't think that it would be be too difficult to convert a bulkhead and door in a blue water cruiser to a water tight door. After all the bulkhead would only have to support the pressure of a column of water which would not even be 6 feet in height, assuming the hull forward is breached i.e. about 2.7 psi (+/- 2 ton of force on the bottom of the bulkhead at 11' long) of pressure at the bottom. Keeping the water on the breach side could save the boat.

The practicalities of converting an existing bulkhead and door to be water tight (or at least to the extent that bypass is at a low flow rate) are probably awkward more than insurmountable. The door would require a wider jamb to support it in the closed position with water pressure as well as house an adequate seal face. The wide jamb and fit of the door is what supports the load, not the hinges. There would have to some method of evenly pulling the door into the jam around its frame. This could be with strong backs on some sort of attachment or mount that spanned the door and frame similar to the emergency fore hatch blank. The hardest part would be running wires and pipes through bulkhead transits which are water proof and a few more challenges to overcome.

Its something that isn't mad or hard to do, just awkward in my opinion. Is the risk worth it, maybe not.

The engine raw water pump as a bilge pump is a good idea. I saw this on a Sailing School yacht once. Not very powerful but better than nothing and it runs continually as well. It was s strum box on a length of hose. The hose terminated just at the engine where the raw water hose attached to the sea water pump. You just pulled one off and stuck the other one on. He even had a bung device just hanging there to stick into the engine raw water hose. Very quick to connect. I have a so called salvage pump attached to my engine with a clutch. Its belt driven and is no more than a large raw water pump. I like the idea previously mention of carrying a big pump. You can buy petrol driven pumps which are quite small in size.

Anyway, just some thoughts on this post, what do others think - bonkers converting your bulkhead and existing door?
 
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Moodyjim said:
Hi David, what does one get for £15 as a bilge alarm please?
thanks,
Jim
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Hello Jim

Only two components wired in series via a fuse.

One level switch (which can handle 2amps max) and one acoustic alarm (109dBA drawing 85 milliamps).

The design is passive (draws no current) until activation of the level switch and then all hell breaks out. No one can sleep through that alarm, it will wake the dead! :eek:

Switch costs under £6.00 and alarm costs under £4.00

SWITCH:
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=getProduct&R=0519232

http://docs-europe.electrocomponents.com/webdocs/0b62/0900766b80b622bc.pdf

ALARM:
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/TSSB1.html

I only guessed at under £15. :rolleyes: I should have said under a tenner! :D
 
I suspect that the leak that sinks a boat is not going to be dealt with by the cooling water of an engine, it would be a big engine that kept up with certain Victories up a windy beat.

The cause of this sinking could have been a number of things, a hose failure, a skin fitting or even the hull splitting due to osmosis. Possibly collision with flotsam.
Skin fittings and hoses rarely just fail at sea, there should be no huge load on them compared to a vigorous test.

A bilge alarm is a good idea, another few minutes warning might make a difference.
A tarpaulin to secure over the hole is another good idea. For a smaller boat you could even cover the whole hull. We have consider this with wooden boats that won't take up quickly.
 
BlowingOldBoots said:
Anyway, just some thoughts on this post, what do others think - bonkers converting your bulkhead and existing door?
Click to expand...

I don't think bonkers :p

I am (slowly!) working towards that. As you identified, sealing the door is one thing, ensuring no gaps elsewhere in the bulkhead also needs doing - that's where I am at the moment.

Apart from stopping the boat filling with water :confused: I am also trying to arrange things to have either watertight spaces / lockers or in an emergency places to be filled with fenders or waterproof bags full of bedding (or even a bin bag of expanding foam? :eek:)..........the idea being to displace the water (hopefully back outside!) rather than giving it places to fill onboard. As well as creating additonal mini collision bulkeads.

For the Saloon / forepeak door my idea is not to waterseal the door (it opens into the saloon anyway) but to go for a waist height board that can be sealed (bolted? - still thinking on that detail :rolleyes:) against the door frame. Possibly with an additional hinged panel that can add another foot or 2,more as splash / surge panel. My thinking is that I want to be able to enter the forepeak from the saloon (without opening the door! or even going outside to drop down the forehatch) and that if the water level ever got above chest height I'd probably have already sunk :p

But in the forepeak (no berths, its the head) I am making the large anchor locker into a sealable unit as collission damage barrier #1. (the idea being that on passage it would be sealed). Their are also a couple of full height lockers / cupboards port and starboard which I am thinking of trying to make watertight up to waist height - but as I don't want to change the look too much this may well also be pre-cut panels that slot in place. The idea being that if I end up with 3 foot deep of water in the forecabin it won't be that much in volume below the waterline - and shouldn't (????) ever rise above the waterline (apart from the boat rolling).

A watertight bulkead between the saloon and the enginebay is going to take a bit more thinking - to get above 6 inches :D

A moveable bilge pump is also on the list :)

Of course I would not bet on all the above having been done come spring :D
 
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