Brazil Wants to Abandon a 34,000-Ton Ship at Sea.

[Concerto]

Somewhere in the South Atlantic ocean right now, a 34,000-ton, 870-ft. aircraft carrier is floating aimlessly on the waves. The vessel, caught in an international dispute over its toxic contents, is about to become one of the biggest pieces of trash in the ocean.



[Inappropriate content removed]

Link for the full article. Brazil's Controversial Plan to Sink a 34,000-Ton Ship at Sea

 

[Frogmogman]

Crikey Roger. That was almost as epic as your circumnavigation of Britain.

Very irresponsible of Brazil.

 

[penfold]

Banana republic's gonna banana republic. France should be obliged to take it back; builder pays.

 

[Frank Holden]

Nothing new under the sun. Do you think the USN took all the asbestos and other nasties out of USS America - built 1965 - before she was scuttled?

Here’s why it Took four Weeks to Scuttle USS America, the Only Supercarrier Ever Sunk - The Aviation Geek Club

 

[lustyd]

Banana republic's gonna banana republic. France should be obliged to take it back; builder pays.

That won’t help, France probably do the same thing the UK does and dump theirs in China for a small fee. Admittedly we’ve started recycling a small portion now but most goes on the boat to China.

 

[ChromeDome]

Alang in India is the worlds biggest breaker. Allegedly also the cheapest.

 

[oldgit]

Alang in India is the worlds biggest breaker. Allegedly also the cheapest.

Let those without sin cast the first ..............

 

[Frank Holden]

It's not which breaker is the cheapest but which breaker is paying the best price, A big ship is worth more than a few million $$$$ in scrap metal.

 

[Biggles Wader]

The problem now in Tukey is more political than financial. There is a strong protest movement resisting the import of scrap ships that contain asbestos whatever the price, very much like what happened here in Hartlepool some years ago when they tried to get into scrapping former US navy ships. There is lots of money to be made. I suspect there will be another scapyard somewhere else in the world that will take this carrier, Chittagong used to be not so choosy?

 

[Neeves]

Alang in India is the worlds biggest breaker. Allegedly also the cheapest.

Bangladesh, Pakistan, other locations in India are also in the running.

I visited one in Bombay - fascinating.

Jonathan

 

[Irish Rover]

The problem now in Tukey is more political than financial. There is a strong protest movement resisting the import of scrap ships that contain asbestos whatever the price, very much like what happened here in Hartlepool some years ago when they tried to get into scrapping former US navy ships. There is lots of money to be made. I suspect there will be another scapyard somewhere else in the world that will take this carrier, Chittagong used to be not so choosy?

I wouldn't describe this as a "problem -- in Turkey". Turkish people generally, and especially our well educated younger generation, are much more environmentally aware than before and politicians are, not before time, taking notice. It helped that there's an election on the horizon and Izmir [to where this ship was bound] is an opposition stronghold and going to be a major battleground in the May election.

 

[penfold]

That won’t help, France probably do the same thing the UK does and dump theirs in China for a small fee. Admittedly we’ve started recycling a small portion now but most goes on the boat to China.

Flag registries charge shipowners fees; increase the fees so there is a fund available at end of life to responsibly dispose of the hull. Ban FOCs who do not toe the line from european and US port states and suspend their IMO voting rights for the duration, so they have little attraction to most ship owners and their registers empty of all but zombie end-of-life hulks that no one wants in their ports anyway.

 

[lustyd]

Flag registries charge shipowners fees; increase the fees so there is a fund available at end of life to responsibly dispose of the hull. Ban FOCs who do not toe the line from european and US port states and suspend their IMO voting rights for the duration, so they have little attraction to most ship owners and their registers empty of all but zombie end-of-life hulks that no one wants in their ports anyway.

I think you missed my point. You referred to them as a banana republic as if they are somehow less advanced than us. The only difference is that we hide our mess so the public are unaware. One ship is insignificant when viewed against the waste produced by a nation such as ours, and putting it in the sea is not worse than shipping it to China and pretending it's recycled, as we do with almost all of our other waste.

I agree a ship being sunk is a bad thing, but with some perspective, Brazil isn't worse, and a ship in the sea isn't a huge deal in the grand scheme of modern humanity.

 

[newtothis]

Flag registries charge shipowners fees; increase the fees so there is a fund available at end of life to responsibly dispose of the hull. Ban FOCs who do not toe the line from european and US port states and suspend their IMO voting rights for the duration, so they have little attraction to most ship owners and their registers empty of all but zombie end-of-life hulks that no one wants in their ports anyway.

Nice idea, but if you had any idea of how ineffectual the IMO is in achieving anything difficult, you'd know it is a non-starter. To start with it would need to be voted on by IMO, whose members include the open registry states.
The Hong Kong Convention on safe ship recycling was adopted in 2009. But it requires 15 signatories comprising 40% of world tonnage before it comes into effect two years later. So far it has five, none of whom have needle-moving fleets.
On the whole the system works pretty well at the moment. Ships end up on the beaches. The work is dangerous and not environmentally safe, but India is not about to stop it becase it provides jobs and revenues when the recycled steel is sold.
Europe has tried to make it difficult for ships to be sent for beaching, but the nature of ship ownership makes it pretty difficult to regulate against. Even if you can ascertain the beneficial owner is European, there is no way to stop them selling a tradeable asset to Panama-based WeBuyAnyShip.com, who will then scrap wherever they like.
As for banning ships from ports, port state control in many parts of the world is not what you might expect in the wealthier parts of the world.

 

[penfold]

I know exactly how carp the IMO is, it's utterly in thrall to scumbag shipowners. It needs disbanded and an organisation created that can stop atrocities like the Beirut explosion happening.

 

[Slowboat35]

I'm not saying that scuttling the ship is a particularly good idea but surely a bit of perspective is required. Assuming that the bunkers have been properly emptied I really wonder what harm sinking it in deep water could do. The deep ocean is surely one of the best places for asbestos as it can't get out into the atmosphere which is where it does harm and PCBs aren't soluble in water either - so as it lies there undistutrbed effectively for ever what damage can be done? Steel is made of natural ingredients that will eventually be reincorporated and absorbed into the oceanic ooze and in geological time recirculated into rock.
During the wrs of the 20th century many tens of millions of tons of shipping were sunk, all with quantities of fuel and God only knows what else on board, nt cleaned out and emptied like this thing. Who has ever heard of deep water WW1 and WW2 shipwrecks causing problems, indeed few shallow ones have done either with the odd notable exception.
Sinking it would save the beaches and coastal waters of the Indian beach-brekers from adding to the most appalling direct pollution - better deep-six it than that imho.

 

[newtothis]

I know exactly how carp the IMO is, it's utterly in thrall to scumbag shipowners. It needs disbanded and an organisation created that can stop atrocities like the Beirut explosion happening.

The Beirut explosion was caused by a number of factors, but I genuinely don't think any of them can be traced back to the IMO. Things like that tend to happen in corrupt countries that have had no effective government in decades, but I don't think it is up to IMO to be checking or enforcing (it has no enforcement powers) what conditions cargoes are stored in member countries.
I'd also dispute that it is in thrall to 'scumbag shipowners'. Like all UN organisations, it is simply the collective will of its member nations.

 

[mjcoon]

I'd also dispute that it is in thrall to 'scumbag shipowners'. Like all UN organisations, it is simply the collective will of its member nations.

After all, only if the IMO could actually do anything could it be subject to pressure of that sort!

 

[Wansworth]

I'm not saying that scuttling the ship is a particularly good idea but surely a bit of perspective is required. Assuming that the bunkers have been properly emptied I really wonder what harm sinking it in deep water could do. The deep ocean is surely one of the best places for asbestos as it can't get out into the atmosphere which is where it does harm and PCBs aren't soluble in water either - so as it lies there undistutrbed effectively for ever what damage can be done? Steel is made of natural ingredients that will eventually be reincorporated and absorbed into the oceanic ooze and in geological time recirculated into rock.
During the wrs of the 20th century many tens of millions of tons of shipping were sunk, all with quantities of fuel and God only knows what else on board, nt cleaned out and emptied like this thing. Who has ever heard of deep water WW1 and WW2 shipwrecks causing problems, indeed few shallow ones have done either with the odd notable exception.
Sinking it would save the beaches and coastal waters of the Indian beach-brekers from adding to the most appalling direct pollution - better deep-six it than that imho.

Titaniking

 

[Frogmogman]

That won’t help, France probably do the same thing the UK does and dump theirs in China for a small fee. Admittedly we’ve started recycling a small portion now but most goes on the boat to China.

The Clemenceau was sent off to India to be scrapped, but had to be returned after India rejected it following protests. France did not however then threaten to scuttle her !!

She ended up being dismantled in Hartlepool. What that says about Hartlepool compared to India, I’ll leave you to decide