Bowsprit and general rig advice on an Eventide 24

[Reptile Smile]

Hi all,

This may come across a a curious question, or at the very least, a horrendously ignorant one...

I've recently acquired an Eventide 24, with which I am hopelessly in love. She has a rig that's clearly not original (am pretty sure the boom started out life as a goal post), but in particular doesn't have her bowsprit. She's just rigged to the deck/bow like a conventional modern boat.

I'd like to return a bowsprit to her, though at this stage, only really for two reasons - 80% I like bowsprits aesthetically, and 20% I'd like to return her to her original state.

Though I've signed up on eventides.org.uk, and therefore hope to get the plans through them, I know nothing of this other than the original bowsprit was a 'plank' bowsprit (and therefore, I think, shouldn't be too complex to replace).

What I don't know is what repercussions this will have on the handling and on the rig. There's a baby stay available if she ends up being cutter rigged, but I have no real idea of any pros and cons to inform my planning.

Any thoughts gratefully received.

 

[tillergirl]

What; like this?

 

[oldharry]

Had an E26 for several years. Lovely boat, and well understand falling in love with her. First of all, go to the Eventide Owners Group here: http://www.eventides.org.uk/ The chances are they will know your boat, and may even have pics of her. They also have pretty well all there is to know about these characterfull old boats. Or if not, they will know soembody who does.

The rig you have is the standard Eventide 24. Because they are a bit prone to heavy weather helm because of the hard chine hull, some owners modded them to a bowsprit cutter rig, but this IS a mod, not original to the original MG design. It helped, a bit. Italso helped the rather modest sail area in light weather.

The final solution to weather helm is to fill in the space between the ballast stub and the skeg. Mine had had this mod, and she would sail all day in moderate wind with a the helm lashed! Just like a long keeler.

Good luck with her, they are lovely boats!

Edit: just looked at the website, and someone is advertising a boom for £40. ALso they will sell you a CD of the original plans for a fiver, which will presumably give youy all the details of the standard rig. My old E26 is still there - look for 'Huff' in the pictures section.

 

[Tranona]

Can confirm that the bowsprit would not be original, but as Old Harry says sometimes fitted to add sail area and reduce weather helm. You can either make it a plank type or a pole, but would suggest that you sail it first before you start messing about. If you have weather helm then reducing the foot of the main and putting more roach in with battens helps. The mods to the keel, filling in the gap is a good move - even better is to increase the draft by about 9" and build a deeper higher aspect ratio rudder as I have done with mine.

All this is a lot of work and you can do a lot to improve the original by having good sails and learning how to trim the boat properly.

 

[Reptile Smile]

Right-o. I'd assumed from the plans here that the bowsprit was original (though the photo obviously shows an Eventide without one...)

Tranona, I apologise if I somehow gave the impression that I hadn't sailed her. I sailed her quite a lot in the recent half-term, including from Maldon to Southend and had a blast. The weather helm was not nearly as bad as I'd expected.

The keel job does sound like a faff, though the bowsprit less so. Having said that, if the panel feel it's not really necessary, then I'm reluctant to start fiddling around too much for a job that doesn't really need doing. I just like the look of them. I am that shallow, I'm afraid...

 

[Zagato]

Might be worth thinking about how you are going to moor her when fitting the bowsprit if you have a bobstay - Will you need/want to thrice the bobstay or maybe put a snap shackle straight onto the bobstay bow D ring or some do both

I'm still scratching my head about mine - don't trust it just on the D ring for strength reasons - it will take a lot of tugging so I prefer the sampson post but then the chain will foul the bobstay and tug on that sideways !

 

[oldharry]

Right-o. I'd assumed from the plans here that the bowsprit was original (though the photo obviously shows an Eventide without one...)

Hmm Interesting: The photo shows the standard E24 3/4 rig as per MGs plans, though many people went for masthead rigs as they were simpler, and allowed more sail area..

The plans below actually show a fairly unusual cutter rigged E26 with bowsprit. The difference is the coachroof. The E 24 the coachroof stops aft of the mast step. On the E26 and the larger variants (home builders stretched them up to as much as 32feet quite successfully) the coachroof extended forward of the mast, and on mine its had been taken even further forward, making her look very much like a Golden Hind.

 

[Reptile Smile]

BTW - just to square the circle here, the Eventide Owners Group were good enough to send me the PDF of their study plans, in which they have the outlines and blurb from the original YM designs, in which it says, "The fore hatch is of the MG double coamìng drip-proof type, the mast is easily lowered, being mounted on deck in a substantial tabernacle. A bowsprìt is standard." Make of that what you will...

 

[William_H]

Mooring

Might be worth thinking about how you are going to moor her when fitting the bowsprit if you have a bobstay - Will you need/want to thrice the bobstay or maybe put a snap shackle straight onto the bobstay bow D ring or some do both

I'm still scratching my head about mine - don't trust it just on the D ring for strength reasons - it will take a lot of tugging so I prefer the sampson post but then the chain will foul the bobstay and tug on that sideways !

I have (swing) moored my little 21fter primarily by the equivalent of the D ring on the bow for near 30 years. I used what was fitted for winching the boat onto a trailer. However the side loads on the fitting fatigued off the original U bolt. It was 3/8 inch U turned down to 5/16 inch for the nuts inside so failed at the diameter reduction. I then fitted a saddle with 3/8 inch bolts and no more problems.
This mooring style has advantages that the mooring rope can not so easily be chafed by other boats if they come free and it is a very stout attachment. I use a secondary rope to mooring cleat on deck. This is used for casting off and recovery. The snap shackle on the bow is the last thing attached from the dinghy on departure.
This would be a good system if used with a bob stay.
Re the original question. A bowsprit with a furling light weight genoa would be good for light winds. Use the existing forestay an working jib for when you have plenty of wind. So making a cutter rig. But really if you are not concerned about lightwind performance then leave rig as is. IMHO
good luck olewill

 

[Tranona]

BTW - just to square the circle here, the Eventide Owners Group were good enough to send me the PDF of their study plans, in which they have the outlines and blurb from the original YM designs, in which it says, "The fore hatch is of the MG double coamìng drip-proof type, the mast is easily lowered, being mounted on deck in a substantial tabernacle. A bowsprìt is standard." Make of that what you will...

My boat was the first built to the "refined" plans which are basically the ones you see now. They were redrawn in 1963 by Edward Atkinson, who built the very first Eventide 24. He worked at the time for Hartwells who built several to those plans before evolving into the Golden Hind. At the same time YM were selling plans to DIYers and MG was always keen on bowsprits, having cut his teeth on old style boats that needed them to spread the sailplan out. So, he drew lots of variations and as Old Harry says individual builders manipulated the designs as they were building to meet their own requirements. The plans have subsequently undergone a number of refinements by various people to improve their usability and to incorporate mods that builders and users have found useful, so don't necessarily reflect earlier boats.

I have not sailed an original 24, but many have told me that the basic ones with the 3/4 rig and shorter mast handle very well. Bigger masthead rigs, heavier construction and no change in the ballast weight spoiled some boats. Because of the huge variations in builds you get a lot of variation in handling so you really have to decide for yourself whether there is any benefit in fitting a bowsprit

 

[Zagato]

I have (swing) moored my little 21fter primarily by the equivalent of the D ring on the bow for near 30 years. I used what was fitted for winching the boat onto a trailer. However the side loads on the fitting fatigued off the original U bolt. It was 3/8 inch U turned down to 5/16 inch for the nuts inside so failed at the diameter reduction. I then fitted a saddle with 3/8 inch bolts and no more problems.
This mooring style has advantages that the mooring rope can not so easily be chafed by other boats if they come free and it is a very stout attachment. I use a secondary rope to mooring cleat on deck. This is used for casting off and recovery. The snap shackle on the bow is the last thing attached from the dinghy on departure.
This would be a good system if used with a bob stay.
Re the original question. A bowsprit with a furling light weight genoa would be good for light winds. Use the existing forestay an working jib for when you have plenty of wind. So making a cutter rig. But really if you are not concerned about lightwind performance then leave rig as is. IMHO
good luck olewill

Agree with what you say Olewill, The Shrimpers/Drascombe Drifters etc are moored from the D ring as they are strong enough - they need to be for trailer sailing!

I'm not so sure about the D ring and it's strength through the hull on a Crabber 24 though especially as the boat is near 4 tons as opposed to one - I don't know but it just doesn't look strong enough, although some owners do moore up on it as you describe. Would probably be easier to moore up this way and you might not even have the problem of the buoy rubbing against your hull!