Bounty report.

[Woodlouse]

I thought this might be of interest to some. This is an account of the hearings carried out in the wake of the sinking of the Bounty including cross examinations of all the survivors and those responsible for maintaining the vessel.

http://gcaptain.com/bounty-hearings-chief-mates-testifies/

 

[LittleSister]

Thanks for that.

Interesting and troubling to hear about the hearings, and the run up to the tragedy which sounds almost inevitable with hindsight.

Also interesting to hear some of the more generally applicable things the author has to say about competence, the use of maydays/panpans, etc.

 

[Capt Popeye]

Thank you for the info and links; horrifying totally horrifying

Although the Reports have yet to be finalised and issued; t'is I find quite worrying that already 'sea lore' and regulations on seamanship and safety appear to have been misunderstood or not applied in this case!

When I read some of the YBW 'postings' on Col Regs and 'who gives way to who', it seems to me that there is a dire lack of 'basic' understanding afloat A lot of the comments / postings seem to be at 'half cock', with a grain of truth but not the whole truth, and certainly 'not understood', ie

Safety and preserving life and limb of crew, (and the boat) do not appear to feature prominently in the 'postings' !

Perhaps, just perhaps, a total review of the RYA teachings is required?

Ah well, lets see what the final result of the Enquiry delivers?

 

[Uricanejack]

Thanks
An interesting read.
very well written article by some one with good observations based on the actual hearings.
A sad, sad tale, remenicent of the Marquesa.
I don't understand the critisisum above of the RYA who had absoloutly nothing to do with the Bounty.
If I recall correctly the RYA UK MCA created the modern RYA Yachtmaster and coding of training vessels as a response to the Marquesa
Its unfortunate 2 died as a result yet increadably fortunate there were survivors

 

[Capt Popeye]

Thanks
An interesting read.
very well written article by some one with good observations based on the actual hearings.
A sad, sad tale, remenicent of the Marquesa.
I don't understand the critisisum above of the RYA who had absoloutly nothing to do with the Bounty.
If I recall correctly the RYA UK MCA created the modern RYA Yachtmaster and coding of training vessels as a response to the Marquesa
Its unfortunate 2 died as a result yet increadably fortunate there were survivors

Hi, my experience and current Forum reading is from the UK point of view, so the reference to the RYA as being the (probable) main teaching / instruction / course certificate in the UK.

My concerns are that, if its accepted that most of contributors to this Forum have a RYA qualification, from say PB2 to Ocean Master, why is it that it seems to me that often the Understanding of the Intention of the stated rules is bizarre?

For example; the oft quoted 'power gives way to sail' often appears to be taken literally and without the context and qualifications for the rule to be thus observed!

The Dinghy sailors when racing are often quoted as relying upon the PGWTS to force (or try to) their way even across Fairways and in restricted waters.

The case where a Yacht racing (under command of a (or ex) RN Officer) with other Yachts tried to pass down the Starboard side of a Liner who was positioning to turn to Starboard in restricted conditions, resulting in the Yacht leaving her Rigging / Sail on Liners Anchor. Some knowledgeable posters appeared to suggest that it was OK to pass down Starboard side as the Liner had not actually started her turn to Starboard yet! Buggers belief.

The understanding of Seaman Ship just appears to have gone awry! So if these peoples have an RYA qualification where has it gone wrong?

 

[flaming]

It is, I would suggest, very dangerous to rely on the contents of an internet forum as a barometer of how rules are actually known and applied in the real world.

Add in the fact that there was a poll on here a while back, and the percentage of posters with RYA qualifications was actually quite low, and I don't think it's really fair to blame the RYA!

And your summary of the Cowes Week incident is somewhat wide of the mark, both in the fact that the yacht was caught on the port side of the tanker (not liner) and that I don't think anyone actually suggested the yacht was in any way in the right. The main disagreement was over how he came to be there, not that he was wrong to be there.

 

[Capt Popeye]

It is, I would suggest, very dangerous to rely on the contents of an internet forum as a barometer of how rules are actually known and applied in the real world.

Add in the fact that there was a poll on here a while back, and the percentage of posters with RYA qualifications was actually quite low, and I don't think it's really fair to blame the RYA!

And your summary of the Cowes Week incident is somewhat wide of the mark, both in the fact that the yacht was caught on the port side of the tanker (not liner) and that I don't think anyone actually suggested the yacht was in any way in the right. The main disagreement was over how he came to be there, not that he was wrong to be there.

Ahoy there - flaming;

Think we agree on some points and clarification of my reference to RYA and Yacht passing Stbd / Port

I missed any Poll on here, if it was in Lounge, probably scurrilous voting was performed, if in Scuttlebutt probably more representative?

I did not intend to blame the RYA but thought that the RYA (if they provide most teaching instruction) there just might be a review required of the Wording in their Courses and Booklets in order to obtain greater and more accurate understanding of the Safety aspect by Yachties, Boaters and Mobo users! So not applying Rules when in wrong situation. Tis very very easy to use a form of words that convey something to an experienced person but lack the real words required to fully convey same thing to a lay person. Suggest that that is the case of 'Power give way to Sail' etc

Re Cowes Week Yacht incident; you are right was a Tanker; but if I recall the postings accurately, the Yacht was on a course to pass to Starboard of the Tanker (whilst other Yachts in Race were passing to Tanker Port side) and changed course late (too late) to pass Tanker on Port side resulting in the Incident with Ship Anchor. My criticism / comment is that as the Tanker following the Navigation Channel was going to turn to her Starboard NO one should have attempted to plot a course along her Starboard side, (good seamanship) a definite No NO . I recall (hopefully accurately) that some forum contributors thought it was OK to do so as the Tanker had not yet started her turn to Starboard. I found that 'worrying'!

 

[GHA]

I did not intend to blame the RYA but thought that the RYA (if they provide most teaching instruction) there just might be a review required of the Wording in their Courses and Booklets in order to obtain greater and more accurate understanding of the Safety aspect by Yachties, Boaters and Mobo users

I'm with flaming on this one. There is no way of knowing if views and apparent level of knowledge on an internet forum has any relevance to the real world. Pointless exercise.

 

[flaming]

Re Cowes Week Yacht incident; you are right was a Tanker; but if I recall the postings accurately, the Yacht was on a course to pass to Starboard of the Tanker (whilst other Yachts in Race were passing to Tanker Port side) and changed course late (too late) to pass Tanker on Port side resulting in the Incident with Ship Anchor. My criticism / comment is that as the Tanker following the Navigation Channel was going to turn to her Starboard NO one should have attempted to plot a course along her Starboard side, (good seamanship) a definite No NO . I recall (hopefully accurately) that some forum contributors thought it was OK to do so as the Tanker had not yet started her turn to Starboard. I found that 'worrying'!

Huge thread drift, but...

Again, you're taking postings here too seriously. ALL that this forum knows is that the yacht hit the tanker. We do not know why it hit the tanker, what the thought process of the skipper was, or even if they'd seen the tanker before it was too late. We certainly don't know that it "changed course too late".

EVERY post on this subject is conjecture. A fact many on here seem to miss, as a lot of postings seem to have already condemned him. He has pleaded not guilty, so I guess we will find out the full facts in due course.