bosun's chair failure

[albineer]

bosun\'s chair failure

Reading today's report of a bosun's chair failure
http://www.ybw.com/auto/newsdesk/20070722153658ymnews.html
prompts me to ask whether other people use a harness as well as the chair like Terry Atkinson did.

 

[nigelhudson]

Re: bosun\'s chair failure

I use a "budget" bosun's chair like the XM one for occasional use and I'm not prepared to rely on it without backup. I wear a harness and pass a lifeline round the mast so that, if all else fails, I cannot fall further than the next set of spreaders.

Secondly I attach a pair of webbing loops to a slider which is pulled up the mast on a separate halyard. This forms a foot rest so that I can take some or all of my weight off the bosun's chair.

Finally, I don't trust either the D ring on the chair or the fitting on the end of the main halyard enough to risk my life on them. I pass the halyard through the webbing and then knot it, using the halyard fitting as a lock to prevent the knot from coming undone.

Belt, braces and piece of string!

 

[albineer]

Re: bosun\'s chair failure

Thanks.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: bosun\'s chair failure

Thanks for posting that. I have been concerned about the design of my almost new 2006 XM - the webbing is stitched in such a way that the stitching is taking a considerable force e.g. webbing goes through the ring and is then stitched back onto the standing end with no loop, knot or other mechanical means to take the strain. I had assumed that as such a large supplier they were using best industry practice but now....?

Given that this is a primary life safety issue (you are not supposed to need a backup harness and there are no instructions recommending one) then surely they need to recall these products?

 

[alldownwind]

Re: bosun\'s chair failure

[ QUOTE ]
I use a "budget" bosun's chair like the XM one for occasional use and I'm not prepared to rely on it without backup. I wear a harness and pass a lifeline round the mast so that, if all else fails, I cannot fall further than the next set of spreaders.

Secondly I attach a pair of webbing loops to a slider which is pulled up the mast on a separate halyard. This forms a foot rest so that I can take some or all of my weight off the bosun's chair.

Finally, I don't trust either the D ring on the chair or the fitting on the end of the main halyard enough to risk my life on them. I pass the halyard through the webbing and then knot it, using the halyard fitting as a lock to prevent the knot from coming undone.

Belt, braces and piece of string!

[/ QUOTE ]
This is excellent advice. I do cliff work with the CG and I'm horrified at the way folk go up masts taking no safety measures whatsoever, relying solely on one halyard and the chair fittings.
By the way, if you have a second helper available, use a second halyard fastened to your other harness (again, knotted, don't use the snap-shackle) and get them to take up the slack on it and keep turns on a winch.

 

[onenyala]

Re: bosun\'s chair failure

I carry two dedicated Marlow braid halyards on board. If I have to go up (in port) I reeve off the two halyards replacing the main and the topping lift or the main & the foresail or the foresail and the topping lift.
I make these climbing halyards fast by taking turns round the mast below the cleats so I dont depend on the cleats themselves they merely ensure the turns cannot slide up the mast.
Then using a bosuns chair on one halyard and a climbing harness on the other I climb on one halyard using a Gri Gri and an Ascender and on the other halyard I have a Shunt which I move up as I climb which serves as a back up.

 

[sarabande]

Re: bosun\'s chair failure

Sounds a good idea to have doubled security measures, but before I make an ass of myself in the climbing shop, can you advise on what type / make or size of Gri-Gri and Shunt one should ask for, please ?

 

[orizaba]

Re: bosun\'s chair failure

i don't like bosuns chairs and so fitted mast steps from just below the spreaders ,and ratlines on the shrouds to get to them.
i aways wear a safety harness when going up and then clip to mast once in a working position,as i go up swmbo cleats rope off on the way up.one usefull bit of kit we use is a pair of microphone/headphones,they leave your hands free and no shouting.they were made for kids to use in the garden,a bit starwarsish but very effective.about 20 sqid in argos,but probablly cheaper now

 

[onenyala]

Re: bosun\'s chair failure

The kit which I made up consists of :
2 lengths of Marlow braid 10mm (not double plait)
Petzl Ascender B18
Petzl Grigri D14
Petzl Shunt B03
Climbing harnes
Baltic Bosuns chair
The total cost will probably be in the region of £250 but set against the cost of using a boat yard and the feeling that the top of the mast is no longer a no go area it is worth it.
This method was recommended to me by a guy who amongst other things set up the aerial ropes for Madonna to swing around on !

 

[albineer]

Re: bosun\'s chair failure

Sorry to press but which clmbing harness do you use? The harnesses I found on the net are belt and leg jobs. Do these work with a bosun's chair?

 

[Guest]

Webbing and stitching ...

But surely most webbing articles are stitched this way ... without loop / knot or other to take strain.

Car seat-belts, safety lines, all sorts are X stitched over a length end to standing part ... after passing through ring / clip etc.

Surely the problem is the stitching and its type ...

I'm not taking sides or protecting XM on this or any other - just stating obvious !!

I have a Bosuns chair at home - given me from a ship ... unlike the traditional plank and rope affair I was used to ... this is a full "canvas seat and webbing" job similar to yacht ones ... and this has the similar webbing stitching by passing through lifting ring and back to standing part ... with the X style stitching.

Only commenting ....

 

[Gunfleet]

Re: bosun\'s chair failure

If it's a back up you could just make a bowline on a bight and save yourself £250!

 

[Gunfleet]

Re: Webbing and stitching ...

I wonder when the plank and rope affair stopped being used and if anyone had actually injured themselves on one before everyone moved over to this modern stuff (which apparently comes unstitched!)

 

[rogerthebodger]

Re: Webbing and stitching ...

I have a plank and rope affair and a new seago. The plank and rope is too easy to fall out backwards.

But I have fitted folding steps so with steps, bosuns chair and climbing harness. Belt braces and string.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Webbing and stitching ...

Yes, my Plastimo harness and Crewsaver safety lines are both made using that technique. I will be interested to hear an explanation from XM. As for backing things up, surely that is no excuse for a shoddy primary product? You don't 'back up' the wings on a plane, you design them so they will do the job. Why not do the same with a simple thing like a bosun's chair??

 

[Thistle]

Re: Webbing and stitching ...

I agree that the bosun's chair should be well designed and made and shouldn't need backup. The evidence, however, seems to be that that is not always the case so backup is necessary.

I suspect, however, that the main reason for backup is that there is a degree of uncertainty in the state of the halyards used and, perhaps, the way they are handled at deck level. Think, too, of the number of accidents, not necessarily on boats, where someone has cut through their own supporting ropes.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Webbing and stitching ...

Clearly there is a huge risk of halyards being mishandled - slipping off the drum, etc. but I am thinking of the chair itself (i.e. the subject of this thread). Surely we ought to be able to rely on the chair to be 100% reliable unless damaged and for it to be manufactured in such a way that any dangerous damage would be obvious to a lay user. Otherwise the product qualifies as one of the most dangerous pieces of kit imaginable.

 

[onenyala]

Re: bosun\'s chair failure

The very same. You should look at a caving book. The gear I use is derived from the methods used in caving.
It is complex to explain but straight forward to use.

 

[onenyala]

Re: bosun\'s chair failure

Its for climbing solo so there would be nobody to take up the slack.