Bolt rope main fitted as loose foot.

[johnsail]

Hi All. Am a membert of a syndicate sharing a Bav 34 (and, for you wags out there, yes - the keel is still attached!). Two seasons ago we had new sails - the main being cut and made with a bolt rope to slide into the boom.
The sail was fitted as loose foot and all attempts by me to persuade the others to fit the sail correctly have fallen on deaf ears. The main reason for this seems to be that the boat sails ok as it is so why bother.
Annual maintenance is due shortly so this would be an ideal time to correct matters (if indeed they need correcting).
Can anyone suply me with a coinvincing argument as to why we should re-fit the main. My consulting with the sail maker and reporting back has not worked thus far.
Or should I buy into another shared boat?

 

[Seajet]

Well for a start I'd think a sail made to be set loose footed would have a different cut to allow for the stresses, and a reinforced clew ?

The sail is being used in a way it wasn't designed or made for; if they won't listen, as you say may be time for a different syndicate, or a smaller boat with 100% ownership by yourself; I'd much rather have my 22' pride & joy - still goes across the Channel, handles rough weather & clocks up good passage times - than a half share with some berk in a 44' !

 

[DaveCass]

Loose Footed sail

My trintella 29 has a main sail, run in a groove on the boom, the boom is low using this method and it has nearly taken a few heads off.
This winter, the sails needed some work and so I asked the sail maker about the height of the boom and the cut of the main sail.
He suggested that he strengthen the sail and that I run it loose footed.
I am going to try it this year for a while and see if I can make it work.

I forgot to add, last season I replaced the tooping lift with dyneema and used it to increase the level of the boom, especially when reefed, this worked well enough and the main shape was OK.

 

[davidej]

I would have thought that the obvious solution is for you to fit it properly when there is no one else around (in a light to zero wind) - should only take five minutes.

Then wait to see if they notice.

 

[Ludd]

I would have thought that the obvious solution is for you to fit it properly when there is no one else around (in a light to zero wind) - should only take five minutes.

Then wait to see if they notice.

+1

 

[Frankie-H]

I would have thought that the obvious solution is for you to fit it properly when there is no one else around (in a light to zero wind) - should only take five minutes.

Then wait to see if they notice.

Even better. Having done that, try it out and see if you can detect any difference in performance.

 

[jamesjermain]

A sail will be cut quite differently depending on whether the foot is to be loose of fixed. Depending on the maker and specification this can be quite extreme. Frequently, but not universally, a fixed foot will incorporate a 'table' in the lowest panel which lies horizontally when the sail is set properly, thus creating an end-plate effect. To set this loose would be disastrous as it usually has little strength and just folds up if you flatten the sail using the outhaul. If a fixed-foot sail doesn't have a 'table' it will certainly have a bottom panel that allows the sail to generate camber quickly and this, too, will not like to be unsupported.

Current fashion definitely favours loose foots but it's the cut that dictates how it should be set.

 

[Simondjuk]

I forgot to add, last season I replaced the tooping lift with dyneema and used it to increase the level of the boom, especially when reefed, this worked well enough and the main shape was OK.

If you're sailing with the topping lift controlling the boom height you cannot trim the sail. Amongst numerous other issues, the leech will be wide open the whole time.

 

[wklein]

If you're sailing with the topping lift controlling the boom height you cannot trim the sail. Amongst numerous other issues, the leech will be wide open the whole time.

If you do go loose footed and have enough room on the hoist you can put a strop on the tack which will lift the boom without affecting performance. You should also add extra long spectacles to the reef points for the same reason.

Interested in any other responses here as i have bought a new boom without a track on it and have a tight footed mainsail. Looks like i will need to add a track.

 

[Judders]

It sounds like your chums are determined to f#*k the sail. Which is a shame. It seems a crying shame to bugger an expensive piece of kit but some people have to learn the hard way but I'd be pretty bloody seen off if they were expecting me to pick up one quarter of the tab.

I fear they know not what they do.

I must say as well, if they're not going to listen to the sail maker, it'd be mighty strange if they listend to soem anomynous strangers on a website such as this!

 

[dt4134]

I changed to using my main loose footed (on the suggestion of a sailmaker) and it has been a definite improvement. Without looking at it I've no idea if yours is a problem, but I wouldn't automatically assume that it would be.

I presume one or more of the others in your syndicate made a concious decision to fit it loose footed, it's not something you just do, so presumably they have views on the matter themselves.

If you're heading for an argument with the other co-owners over it, might be better to get out and join another syndicate regardless of the rights and wrongs.

 

[savageseadog]

If it's built for a bolt rope then it should be used, there will be improper and probably too high loads on the tack and clew.

Loose fitted keels should be avoided at all costs.

 

[GrahamM376]

Our main which came with the boat has a bolt rope but excess cloth along the foot - supposedly "simulated" loose foot. Seems a bit pointless to me, why not just go for loose fotted?

 

[Seajet]

Our main which came with the boat has a bolt rope but excess cloth along the foot - supposedly "simulated" loose foot. Seems a bit pointless to me, why not just go for loose fotted?

Graham,

are you sure that's not a 'shelf', built in to give a full set in light winds, usually with a flattening reef for stronger conditions ?

Admittedly that was largely a late 1970's -80's idea...

 

[GrahamM376]

Graham,

are you sure that's not a 'shelf', built in to give a full set in light winds, usually with a flattening reef for stronger conditions ?

Admittedly that was largely a late 1970's -80's idea...

Shelf? Things would fall off when heeled! Seriously, I haven't a clue what the idea is - lets just say there's excess material along the foot so its impossible to flatten the bottom bit without reefing. Standard 3 reefs, one very deep takes more than 50% out of sail. Seems to work OK but I don't know enough about sail cut to understand the technicalities.

 

[Seajet]

Graham,

that really does sound like a 'shelf' built into the sail foot; is there a cringle a few inches up on the leech of the sail, above the clew ?

That would be the flattening reef.

If not, possibly a dodgy sail cut...

 

[GrahamM376]

Graham,

that really does sound like a 'shelf' built into the sail foot; is there a cringle a few inches up on the leech of the sail, above the clew ?

That would be the flattening reef.

If not, possibly a dodgy sail cut...

Just the usual plastic tie-off point for the leech line. Unlikely Arun would have made dodgy sail I would have thought. If I remember when I get back aboard (just returned home in time for the rain!) I'll take a photo or two.

 

[Ludd]

My current main is loose-footede ,previous sail(still on board) had a boltrope and a "shelf foot" panel .No cringle for flattening ,as it was on a roller boom. Your sail may be the same,Graham.
Can't remember if you still have a roller boom or not.

 

[wilkinsonsails]

SEAJET is right, it sounds like you have a lens foot on your main, Graham,as you tension the out haul the bias panel of the foot of the sail will close and flatten the sail ,as you ease it,the sail becomes fuller as the shelf or lens falls back into the original cut shape.
A sail that is cut specifically for use as a loose footed main, will have the foot panels laid differently to one with a bolt rope .The clew reinforcement will be heavier,the boom should also have a car or slider to take the clew eye.On older booms, a velcro webbing strap will suffice to keep the clew closest to the boom ,but these dont allways allow ease of outhaul adjustment that you would like to have with a loose footed sail .
It will be designed not to stretch under load .With a bolt rope ,the sail can only be tensioned as far as the rope will allow ,and the fabric will also be trapped in the boom groove.Thats why shelf or lens foot cuts appeared, because more camber can be installed in the lower part of the sail and itis still fixed in the boom.
If a sail has a bolt rope fitted ,it will set best installed in the boom.you may find that you can sail higher with it in the groove than loose footed.
Cindy

 

[Seajet]

SEAJET is right,

Cindy,

thanks - that's not something one sees very often, I'll print & frame it !

Andy