Boaty drink driving again?

[TheBoatman]

I was at a meeting today along with the RNLI and MCA and during the course of the meeting the subject of the proposed drink driving laws re; marine environment was raised and to my surprise the MCA said that they (the laws) were already in existence and that should an offence take place then it is the master that is responsible no matter who was helming/navigating/holding bits of string etc.

Please don’t shoot the messenger as I asked as many questions and offered as many scenarios as I could remember from previous posts on this forum.

Bottom line is becareful!


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[Neraida]

Yes they are, as proven by action taken against individuals who have been incapable of control of their vessels. What is surprising and suspicious is the 'new' legislation currently at consulation level which depends on what exactly 'in command' of a vessel means, i.e. when in port and rafted etc.

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[Mirelle]

I can confirm that the MCA have "thrown the book" at people ere now; in one notorious case quite wrongly, IMHO - the Master of a shuttle tanker waiting on weather in a Scottish loch decided to put the MOB boat in the water for a run, taking the Chief and the Bosun with him, and they decided to run ashore and stretch their legs. Since they were on an Exxon ship (notoriously dry, since the Exxon Valdez case, which was not caused by the Master, who was in his cabin when she struck, having had a drink with his Agent) and the sight of a pub met their gaze, they succumbed to temptation and staggered back three sheets to the wind.

Their ship was (a) at anchor (b) in ballast (c) not going anywhere soon and (d) with sufficient competent and sober officers aboard to take her to sea case need throughout all this.

The MCA descended in righteous indignation and suspended all three men's certificates.

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[Neraida]

Mirelle, for commercially owned vessels, not the first story I have heard although not surprising whether justified or not but my point was kind of aimed at privately owned pleasure craft who have been arrested and charged when under way and drunk.

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[TheBoatman]

What surprised me was that as far as the MCA are concerned you could have the master down below completely sober but say sick and yet he still gets done if the helm is drunk?
I extracted a "what if" scenario from them regarding a vessel laying to anchor for a w/end jolly, not expecting to move for a couple of days and the anchor drags requiring the vesel to by re-postioned, answer, if your p***d, the skipper can be nicked. Admittedly the MCA said they would excercise a certain amount of discretion as to the possible problems that maybe caused but also the bottom line was that if plod wanted to nick you then they could!

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[cliff]

Yes we have all heard the stories and we all? have had the odd glass of vino on a hot summer's day while at anchor or while underway but the bottom line is "how many 'nick-nick' boats with blue flashing lights are there out there?. Also unless you have an accident you are not likely to be boarded and breathalized although anyone who is drunk while underway deserves all he (or she) gets.
A little bit of common sense is required by all parties and I am glad to read the MCA say they will use discretion and common sense (unlike many of our boys in blue) but it is up to the skippers of all vessels / boats to ensure the safety of his vessel and crew at all times.

What do you do if you come across a drunk skipper, radio the coast guard? think not best just staw out of his way me thinks.

I had one incident last year at a little anchorage on Seil island. There we were about 30 boats squeezed into an anchorage that normally would hold about 20~24 boats. Lovely summer evening, the only sounds breaking the soft lap of the sea was the popping of corks and the chinking of glasses (and the odd sea gull), an absolutly idealic scene when in comes captain pugwash or should I say captain puggled, 3 sheets to the wind, single handed, motoring in at speed, standing in teh stern doing his impression of a old sailor's jig. just misses my friends boat, well had to be fended off actually, heads straight for me but misses by a couple of layers of gel coat, shouts at me he is going to anchor in front of me, gets told he wasn't (I was not just so polite though), manages to circle round still doing his little dance then rams a moody 44 midships, takes a few moments to realise he had stopped moving and another few to knock his engine out of gear. Luckily there was no major damage to the moody just a couple of bent stantions and some scuff marks (skid marks in the kaks not included). Anyway captain puggled says "sorry - no damage realiy? OK no harm done" or gurgles to that effect and promptly sails off futher up the anchorage to everyones consternation. Anyway he left early the next morning (before sun-up) but we did have the boat name and following a few local enquiries we found out who he was and where he normally kept the gin palace. Might bump into him again this year........

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[webcraft]

Puilladobhrain is quite nice in April and October, otherwise only suitable nowadays for those who like solent-type crowds . . .

- Nick


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[longjohnsilver]

I remember that particular case, the problem was the three of them being totally drunk and incapable and about to board and helm their tender which I presume was somewhat larger than any tender we would use. Also it was not a leisure boat.

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[cliff]

"Puilladobhrain is quite nice in April and October, otherwise only suitable nowadays for those who like solent-type crowds . . . "

And how did you know I was talking about the "Pool of the Otters"

I agree though the Western Isles are getting spoilt - look at Tobermory these days! - still there are some little hidey holes left where you send the tender in first to check the route (and the depth) don't get many "solent types" in them. - In fact you dont get many of anyone in them!

 

[Gordonmc]

If this was the incident at McDuff, then I remember it just as well. The boat in question was a hefty 6m RIB and the guys had been boozin' in a pub across the road from the harbour. It was their antics navigating their way across the road and getting down the harbour wall that attracted the HM and polis.

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[webcraft]

Re: How I know . . .

I know because I live on Seil and keep a boat here . . . and there aren't any other anchorages that fit the description or ever have more than two or three boats in at once.

Even some of the smaller, remoter but well written-up anchorages can get insanely busy . . . had to bale out of Soay last year when seven or eight 'Classic Malters' all decided to overnight there.

- Nick

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[Bergman]

Re: Don\'t understand

How this is supposed to work.

The drunk driving bit is quite clear

Drunk in charge

Or driving over prescribed limit

Or refusing to give a sample

All result in fines disqualification, flogging hanging etc.

And everyone knows the rules

But how does the boat thing work Who has right to stop you check if you are drunk

What is drunk

Who has right to administer breath test

IS a blood or urine test essential

Are you arrested after breath test and then a second test made at cop shop

What if you refuse to take test

What is the law under which all this takes place

does whoever test you have to be wearing his hat like bobbies used to have to do

How drunk can you be and get away with it

What are the penalties

Don't know why I'm bothered really - I don't drink



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[duncan]

Re: Don\'t understand

interestingly the answers to all your questions can be answered from the 'stuff' circulating - what can't be answered, as stated above, is who will be tested/arrested/tried/fined etc As there are no licencing perogatives in place for small leisure craft you could easily have a 12 year old who had consumed sufficent alchol to be over the legal limit to drive 'in charge' of a boat - all sorts of issues arrise under our laws currently eg who has to give permission for any tests? If they refuse (whoever) to give permission for the child to be tested who's committed what 'crime'? Some might say, more realistically, sober 12 year old logged as skipper and helming a bunch of pissed adults back through Poole Harbour - what offence?
Good underlying principles here - they just don't hang tegether ....unless............

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[webcraft]

Re: Don\'t understand

lesh jush hope itsh all too complicashush . . .

Nhic



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