Boats, the Web and tablets..

I was musing about this sort of thing a while ago as the ridiculously expensive dedicated hardware seems doomed. Just need all the data available and then the apps will come. Someone can build a bit of roughty toughty hardware as well. All open source.
 
Not convinced. I took an interest in this a few months back backed away because of philosophical differences. You'll notice there's no actual protocol there you can use yet. This is all about being a "universal data model" couched in the language and specifics of high level languages. All very heavyweight. I want a free and open protocol to communicate with other devices/programs. I don't want someone else to tell me how to structure the data in my own code with a model representing everyone's big ideas about the world or any requirement to implement some big java stack in every IoT-esq mini-device which wants to play. I just want a useful, minimal, open data communications protocol which is fit for purpose.

All down with JSON (GPSd makes fine use of it), just not the whole imposition of a big data model and I'm concerned that the protracted arguments about what it should be like distract from people actually building a workable open source protocol.

http://stripydog.blogspot.co.uk
 
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laika said:
Not convinced. I took an interest in this a few months back backed away because of philosophical differences. You'll notice there's no actual protocol there you can use yet. This is all about being a "universal data model" couched in the language and specifics of high level languages. All very heavyweight. I want a free and open protocol to communicate with other devices/programs. I don't want someone else to tell me how to structure the data in my own code with a model representing everyone's big ideas about the world or any requirement to implement some big java stack in every IoT-esq mini-device which wants to play. I just want a useful, minimal, open data communications protocol which is fit for purpose.

All down with JSON (GPSd makes fine use of it), just not the whole imposition of a big data model and I'm concerned that the protracted arguments about what it should be like distract from people actually building a workable open source protocol.

http://stripydog.blogspot.co.uk
Click to expand...

Come on then. Get writing!! What is the answer? I want to be able to plug everything in to everything and buy a reasonably priced app on any device to do everything!!

Just bought a pi to do your nmea multiplexer but its been hijacked by the son to do scratch! I don't know why it is more attractive than doing it on the pc but it is! Anyway looks like I need another one for Christmas!!
 
GHA said:
One plus does seem to be that it's way of getting your hands on nmea2000 data without having to pay for the privilege, code available over on github.
https://github.com/SignalK
Another chat about it all...

http://themarineinstallersrant.blogspot.co.uk/2014/06/signal-k-is-afoot.html
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....urrrrgh......why should we pay for the privilege? If we have bought an item that outputs (i.e. talks) something to NMEA2000 standard, then why do we then have to pay to listen to it again? Surely, only the 'talker' (and I mean originator here (not repeater here!) should pay to use the nmea standard? Why do we have to pay for everything twice?
 
alteredoutlook said:
....urrrrgh......why should we pay for the privilege? If we have bought an item that outputs (i.e. talks) something to NMEA2000 standard, then why do we then have to pay to listen to it again? Surely, only the 'talker' (and I mean originator here (not repeater here!) should pay to use the nmea standard? Why do we have to pay for everything twice?
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Ask nmea!
The NMEA 2000 standard was defined by, and is controlled by, the US-based National Marine Electronics Association (NMEA). Although the NMEA divulges some information regarding the standard, it claims copyright over the standard and the contents thereof are thus not publicly available. For example, the NMEA publicizes which messages exist and which fields they contain but they do not disclose how to interpret the values contained in those fields. However, enthusiasts are slowly making progress in discovering these PGN definitions
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from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NMEA_2000
 
The value of this box seems to be that is sits as a communication hub between all the different devices and sends messages through your wifi router.
One of the attached devices on the diagram is a PC.
Am I missing something or could an application on the PC do exactly what the Signal K 'Server' is intended to do. i.e. A software solution using existing tavklet/PC hardware, rather than another piece of kit? I suppose that the dedicated server may have lower power usage than a tablet but in this moedern age, that is less of a problem - especially is you have a wifi router on board!

And, as far as I understand, the main purpose of the device seems to be to make data collected on the boat available remotely. Some people may wish to check their battery levels from home but I don't think that there is a pressing need for this global broadcasting of information. The article mentions that you would be able to check the depth of water under the boat in front. Well, you just have to hope that he has his echo sounder calibrated right - and not in fathoms or feet. (Although, seeing the real and apparent winds that other boats around me are experiencing would be interesting. But only to prove my theory that the wind Gods ensure that I sail in a little island of inconvenient wind.) No, when I am on a boat, I am happy in my isolation and I don't feel the need to broadcast the current engine revs to Facebook.

So, what else does this device have to distinguish itself?
A common protocol. Anyone can design and propose a protocol. It only becomes a 'standard' protocol when it is widely adapted by manufacturers and a wide user base. And, that is not going to happen, is it?!!

Maybe, I am missing the point.
 
GHA said:
One plus does seem to be that it's way of getting your hands on nmea2000 data without having to pay for the privilege, code available over on github.
Click to expand...

Alternatively Kees's original can boat code?:
https://github.com/canboat/canboat


GHA said:
Another chat about it all...

http://themarineinstallersrant.blogspot.co.uk/2014/06/signal-k-is-afoot.html
Click to expand...
written by the same guy as wrote the panbo article, Bill Bishop, one of the people contributing to the Signal K project
 
Ravi said:
The value of this box seems to be that is sits as a communication hub between all the different devices and sends messages through your wifi router.
One of the attached devices on the diagram is a PC.
Am I missing something or could an application on the PC do exactly what the Signal K 'Server' is intended to do. i.e. A software solution using existing tavklet/PC hardware, ................


Maybe, I am missing the point.
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Missing it fairly comprehensively :) :)
Signal K *is* the software. Free and running on whatever you decide.

To become more connected in the Signal K world the hardware configuration is straight forward. The Actisense sends the data to a PC, Raspberry Pi, or similar device which acts as the server. The output data is sent in a JSON format to a mobile device via a WiFi router.

Arduinos can also be added to allow additional senors to interact, or even to replace existing instruments. The Freeboard project is writing code to let the Arduino send it's data in the Signal K JSON format avoiding the need to use NMEA at all


Where is this all going? That's the question of the hour. This open source Signal K concept is extremely clever. It has breathed new life into the marine open source community. This is not a trivial effort that's going on. The CANboat NMEA 2000 PGN portion (pgns.json) file contains over 17,000 lines of code alone, and this is barely half of the totality. Reading the interactions of the participants in their Google/GitHub forums is enlightening. A better idea comes up, the group discusses it, agrees, it gets adopted, Signal K is revised and the others match their code to fit it. No fighting, no committees, just smooth, fast and collective motion forward by boat savvy developers.


Where this ends up is hard to prognosticate. It will no doubt be of interest to developers of marine related mobile apps. It certainly can be used to create specialized applications for racing, vessel monitoring and many more applications. The ability to efficiently send information to the cloud offers endless possibilities all by itself. I think the Signal K concept is brilliantly conceived. It provides an elegant flexible bridge between your boats data, and the rest of the connected world using browser based software techniques well understood worldwide by millions of programmers.

http://themarineinstallersrant.blogspot.co.uk/2014/06/signal-k-is-afoot.html
 
Ravi said:
So, what else does this device have to distinguish itself?
A common protocol. Anyone can design and propose a protocol. It only becomes a 'standard' protocol when it is widely adapted by manufacturers and a wide user base. And, that is not going to happen, is it?!!

Maybe, I am missing the point.
Click to expand...

Possibly.... The signal K server is a piece of software which, yes, can run on your existing PC. Signal K isn't selling you a product: it's all free and open source so you can just download it (to your existing PC) and use it.

The original driver seemed to be the closed nature of the NMEA protocols and Signal K proposes an alternative model for storing and distributing data in an open fashion. The interface would be open so anyone is free to write applications which interact with it without this dubious legal grey area which exists around NMEA-0183 or the very very dark grey area around NMEA 2000.

You're right about the common protocol requiring uptake, but the main Signal K developers have their own very credible open source applications, and a couple of the OpenCPN developers are involved, so this could have legs.

The Signal K people would doubtless say that their data model whilst it accommodates a boat's whole environment doesn't necessarily have to be shared with the rest of the world if you don't want it to be (with extensive discussions about the security model used to share / not share various data).

All very interesting but a bit high concept for me. I just want an open data comms protocol I can use on the boat and try and push on people at IoT meetups I occasionally go to for use cases which have nothing to do with boats...
 
My programmnig ability is limited to tweaking Excel with VB, meaning the techy stuff is way over my head, so I could be missing the point, but it does seem that the idea of interlinking everything via the web across the world fall down a bit when I can't even download a forecast in Newtown Creek!
 
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