boats that rarely get discussed on here

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BlueSkyNick

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just a few thoughts:
- Grand Soleil. Drop dead gorgeous lines, never been on one, but would love to know if they are worth further investigation
- Gib Sea - As average as an AWB can be.... or should that be anonymous
- Sweden Yachts - had to leave the SIBS model in a hurry when SWMBO opened one of the galley units and found it was the dishwasher .... in operation. Still fancy one when we win the lottery, though.
- Bowman - boring but robust, worth the money

there are others ...
 
I had a mast snap on a brand new 31ft Gibsea - and I will do my best never to set foot on one again!
 
I had a friend with a Gibsea 760 on our moorings. I noticed something odd about it and phoned him. He asked me to have a look. It was the central heating installation that had given the boat a list. (don't ask)
But the wierd thing was that on it's mooring it had the most uncomfortable motion. I know it was winter and a bit choppy, but I've never noticed anything as disconcerting on another boat.
 
Magna, is that the one outisde the office?

Seems strange to me, and maybe it is just me, but it seems that when talking AWBs, only Bavs ever come up, with Jean and Ben only mentioned in passing. Thing is, I find Ben actually make some really quite pleasant looking boats- the firsts in particular.

I'm more interested in the older (80s) Sadlers right now- 32/4, and they don't come up much either.
Jem.
 
Spent many miles and days on a Sweden 38, nice boat... but in many ways my 91 Bav was a better boat. For Ocean passages and living that is. I suspect it may well have raced pretty well if I'd had a chance.
 
I'll add to the list - X-Yachts. I would love to have an X-412 - even better an IMX 45 - but I'll probably have to settle for a Beneteau when I eventually splash out the cash and buy a boat.
 
I regularly sail a friend's 40' Gibsea and I have to say that it impresses me. Everything feels properly put together, strong and secure. If rounding up is a feature of AWBs then this certainly does not qualify, if the sails are set properly she really will sail herself.

Compared to other 40'ers she is narrow beamed and the accomidation is not overstretched. One aft cabin only, but two big heads and a propper wet locker, again, not something you see very often on an AWB.

All in all, I think she's a great boat. Won't win any races but fantastic for cruising.
 
I'm a fan of the Grand Soleil boats. You're right, they do look lovely. They seem to be producing Swan-like boats but with a bit of Italian design flair. I've never actually sailed one though, just drooled a bit at boat shows. If I ever change (and can affford it) , it'll probably be for a GS.
 
I'm not sure about GibSeas. My experience is limited to just one encounter when I was involved in delivering two boats - one a GibSea 49 or 50, the other a Jeanneau 34 from the south of France to the Ionian. We tossed a coin on which boat we'd each take and I "lost" so had to go for the 34, in some pretty dismal February weather.

The 34 did exactly what you'd expect, from start to finish, but we had to give up on the GibSea travelling with us after 3 days or so after steering connection problems, then an appalling motion which made the boat virtually unsailable in a following sea or a gust .

It was as if the keel was off-centre or massively undersized - neither of which was actually likely. It was a superb floating caravan but the delivery crew gave up and flew home.
 
Getting more obscure...

...Arcona.

One of the less well known Swedish builders. Our friends have a 40 ft deck saloon version which they keep in the Baltic. It exudes build quality from every pore.

Would I want one?
Does the Pope have a balcony?
 
Its the one that often sits on the end of F pontoon, so quite close to the office, although its not there at the moment...

The boat right next to the office is either a brand new Sun Odyssey 42 Deck saloon, which I also love, or you might mean Papagena, which is really truly my dream boat.... thats a one-off Holman and Pye 50'er... and she has quality written all over her, go look at her properly... every fitting is of the highest quality... for sale at the moment for a princely sum!
 
Sometimes all that glisters isn't gold.

Most of us hanker after Swans yet when you look in detail they are less than ideal for our kind of 2 up cruising.

We had friends with a Grand Soleil 345 that had osmosis at 6 years old. They sold on and bought a Maxi 1100.

Berth neighbours sold their not very old Grand Soleil 43 and bought a new Jeanneau 45.

We have friends with a Bowman 42 (yep not 40, but very similar). It has an almost identical layout to our boat but secondhand still cost 4 times as much. They are currently 'disappointed' with it's handling under power and at 6 years old have replaced all windows (leaked), the headlining and the sails. It carries full sail right up to F6 but lies dead in the water in F3. They really hanker after a new Ovni.

The grass isn't always greener so you can hang on and enjoy what you have!
 
I'd hang on and enjoy what I have if I could get the damn thing in the water before the sun disappears!

Magna, I think it must be Papagena I am thinking of- last one before the oldie I think back to seeing the name when going past from waterside and seeing the colourful transom. Yes, magnificent boat, but just a wee bit bit beyond my means...

The quality go-anywheres are what catch my eye always- Rustler, Vancouver, Tradewind, and any number of foreign visitors such as Ovni (despite incredible ugliness), and similarly Deerfoot.

Jem.
 
When I went to view Warlock, she was laid up next to a beautiful Vancouver 28 which was being anti-fouled. I'd not seen one up close and out of the water before, but if anything it impressed me even more than the thirtywhateveritwas which was at the Southampton Boat Show last year.
 
Looked at Grand Soleil and liked them but we spoke to the people (I think 2002 SBS) that owned the display 40' and was surprised how much it had finally cost. It may be for personal reasons but same boat was for sale 1 year later.

Trouble with all boats is the difference between headline price and final price against the same specification.

There are really 2 Gibseas the early solidly built boats of which many went out to charter and lasted very well. I did my day skiper on one and HPYC had another that they were sad to see sold as it was popular for the RTI race and with many repeat customers even though it was 7 yrs old. These Gibseas were narrower than the later ones and hence less accomodation. Later Gibsea were part of Dufour Co and were the economy range offering good value but cheaper finish and aimed for charter market with accomodation winning over sailing abilities.

Sweden yachts sail well but a disproportionate number have been mentioned with the Bavs as having keel problems but it seems that these have all been due to hitting rocks or dropped when being lifted. Quality yacht equivalent to HR & Malo etc and similar price.

I was impressed by the Acona but not their AVS (40' from memory was only 122deg) I expected better when considering ballast ratio. Acona have a "U" shaped subframe ( as X boats) with keel bolted to bottom , hull as a sandwich and mast stepped down to frame and shrouds bolted to top of the "U". Engineering wise I think its great but frame is then counted as part of ballast. Found this out when i looked closely at X boats as their hull seemed incredible light but discovered it was due to all this internal strengthening counting as ballast when part of an independant frame while for conventional boat this weight is then counted in the hull.

Have priced out to same spec both the X43, Acona 46 and Finngulf 46. I considered them all good boats but Acona was not much cheaper than the X boat equivalent even though built in cheaper Estonia, Finngulf and X43 was approx £175k dearer than my final choice of Jeanneau 43DS. I think all would have better sailing qualities and possibly slightly better build qualities but certainly not £175K better. As been said before many times on here every boat is a compromise otherwise we would all choose only the best one! In my case I am looking at a max 7-8 yr charter life and could not justify the extra cost.

If you were to charter for a weekend nor would you be prepared to pay almost double to sail say a Acona 46 over the Jeanneau/Benny/Bav equivalent. It may be a different choice when 20 yrs old but by then you could have bought 2 of the cheaper boats!

X boats are performance boats and are built down to a racing weight, while quality built I have met people who had to increase weight and strengthen some of the fittings.

That my take on these boats and am happy if my post stimulates discussion (even dissention!)and additional info.
 
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