Boats 'n noses

[richson]

Boats \'n noses

A while ago was long thread about salesmen looking down their noses. Majority of opinion agreed, unless you oozed smell of readies you got blanked. Is this propagated by boaty fraternity themselves, ie irresistable temptation to look down snout at others who have less esteemed boat? Are salesmen just doing unto others? Whole DFL thread boiled down to this - wouldn't have got off ground had it been a Princesunline. Wouldn't want DFLs boat though - don't know anything about B'lnrs in particular but imagine floaty equivalent MFI which is opinion got from mags, forum etc. On other hand, spoke to a charter skipper recently who borrowed one for a couple of days. Emptied small oilfield but had a blast compared to chugging about in Offshore 105 - thought it was brilliant. New B'lnrs look OK to me from outside - not my style but wouldn't argue with owner of one. Wouldn't walk into anyone's house and say" Jesus what a dump" either. Is this any different to cars, sunglasses, wristwatches, lawnmowers, RAM, digital cameras? Don't think so, with possible exception that with boats, the bigger they are the more can be seen whilst looking down nose. Is it just a penile thing? Why did DFL get so much surftime - pointed social comment or very clever expoiltation of snobbery?

 

[paulineb]

Re: Boats \'n noses

It's definitely not a penile thing with me and I totally disagree with you. There's a lot of joking and bantering on this BB but 99.9% of the boating fraternity are interested in boats, be they big, small, new, old, motor sailers and, yes, even sailboats. When a new boat enters the marina, there's a rush to take lines etc, not just to be friendly but to get a chance to get on board and find out all about it. The only snobbyness I've ever come across is in a couple of snooty Yacht Clubs and then it's only usually from members who don't even own boats.

Pauline B

 

[Guest]

Re: Boats \'n noses

Ithink the suspspuicion was raised with DFL paying 2xtoo much, silly name, not specially with the brand.

There is something in what you say - but I think it more complicated. In discussions about a boat, I am the one who is not au fait with poncey equipment, and I have no rolex. They are gently getting used to it. The salespeople cannot get it out of their heads that in order to afford one (which they can't) one must invariably "look rich". Some of them do have greying hair, big stomach, overdressed with coat and cigar at a boat show and dolly birds half their age on their arm, but lots don't.

I met up with one of a chap with net wealth of over a $2billion a year or do ago ago. His driver went off for a bacon sandwich. Ooh what a good idea, I said, and he agreed. So we went to the shop and bought bacon sarnies. We coppered up to pay, and walked back. I think most "normal" people imagine that his fabuolous wealth must involve going to the shops in a gold-plated helicopter - but it doesn't.

Nearly everyone at the boat show might be a customer, and should be treated as such. I see no reason why Sunseeker has an unattended 58 on the roundabout outside the boat show, yet beat people off with a shitty stick inside the stick takes the form of ralings, a queue, a qizzical look with them wearing sunglasses, blazers to "cut above" the others yet also make me feel underdressed. It is not the case that "anyone who can afford one will just march in". Lots of people, most of whom are complete nonentities do have the money, but don't want the hassle.

The salesmen are waiting for a "likely punter", but are missing the obvious. In fact, that sixteen-year old (me) who tried to blag his way on to the Porsche stand at the motor show and was told to get lost 30 years ago - didn't and won't ever ever buy a Porsche, on principle. Same goes for Oyster and Sunseeker. Maybe one day my kids will have a boat. Dad ranting about the behaviour at particular brands won't help. Free <choose brand> lollies would cost nothing - and a gentle rule that no lollies on the stand would free up some space happily and easily. Would I buy a massive boat if they were nice to my kids and gave them sweets? I did.

 

[longjohnsilver]

Re: Boats \'n noses

Agree with you Matt, my eldest son is convinced he will make his fortune soon after leaving school an d wants a bigger boat than his dad (which won't be difficult!) but would never buy a Hardy as they basically told him to p##s off at SBS and LBS. They are fools, cos like you and Porsche, he is a potential future purchaser.

You and the chap in MBY must be very similar - he also was impressed by sweets for his kids! You ought to get together with him sometime and compare notes.

 

[Guest]

Re: er ahem

I must confes that that *was* me. Didn't use real name as didn't want to ram it up everyone's nose. Which i suppose proves the point. Am I falling for another little wind-up here?

 

[longjohnsilver]

Re: er ahem

No I think we had probably guessed that, Bernard.

 

[ArthurWood]

Re: Boats \'n noses

Matt - there is something about boat sales people that I've never understood; most never ask questions as salespeople should. ie they don't qualify the customer/potential customer even when he or she starts making interested noises. Do they possess ESP and actually know who is going to buy? I doubt it.
It seems to me they could make a mint in commission if they actually SOLD their products. Would you let your salespeople ( I assume you are in sales) behave like that and keep their jobs?

 

[Guest]

Re: you\'re right..

of course. But in a busy boat show the mood seems to be to get rid of people, not to welcome them on board. Why not a sunseeker/fairline fake boat with a ball pond.

As for the questions, right again. I'm told the nicest question is to ask a possible punter where they would keep the boat. That way, they sort the dreamers from the doers. BUT, you gotta have a dream...

 

[longjohnsilver]

Re: er ahem

Forgot to say Matt that we enjoyed the article and look forward to updates on progress either here or in mag, 16 yr old son is hooked and wants one too!!!!! He might have to wait a year or two.

 

[Guest]

Re: Boats \'n noses

Peoples experiences of salespeople will be varied. It is only human nature to go to those who help you/make it easy for you to spend your money, whether this be on the day or a few years down the line.

In '92 I want to the Boat Caravan & Leisure Show at B'ham, my first show. Sunseeker did look down their nose at me then. I told Sealine up front that I was not in a position to buy, but they were happy to spend an hour or so with me crawling over their boats answering newcomer type quetsions. That was my first experience of boat salespeople and Sealine stick in my mind for the help they gave me and this would definitely influence my choice of supplier.

In 99 & 2000 I never had a prob getting onto the shore based Sunseekers at SBS. This year the queues were too long so I did not bother. Last year at SBS, I looked forward to looking around the Shetlands (more realistic startboat for me) exhibited by Severn Valley Boat Co. I was put off by the humour which my questions evoked, the biggets guffaws coming from James Reinman himself. Thgey left me with the impression that they could not be bothered, so I left theior stand after about 5 mins. I went to the Landau stand and got a far better treatment from Andy & his colleagues. I even got the chance to helm the Landau 20 on the try a boat event (in open water and obviuosly supervised). Whilst not initially considering a Landau I was well impressed with their product and their service.

RJMW

 

[jfm]

Re: DFL not treated snobbishly

Richson the treatment DFL got was not this BB disapproving his boat was Bayliner. His claimed sincerity didn't stack up (it wd have made no difference if a sunseeker) and when you smell a rat you do not wish to fall for it hook line and sinker and hence you flush it out, and indeed it was a rat. Had his post looked even 1/2 way plausible it would have not been ridiculed, he wd have got proper helpful comments.

Completely agree comments of others. It's thankfully now commonplace for people with say £1m free cash, and £100m free cash, not to behave snobbishly but to appear completely ordinary, mix with others regardless whether rich or poor, dress in Next not GievesHawkes, and thereby dupe Porsche/Sunseeker salesman into thinking they cant afford it. In fact it's quite nice when the salesman of something expensive doubts you can afford it, cuz it means your "ordinary bloke" demeanour is working, provided the salesman is still nice and doesn't tell you to FO. Rodriguez sound perfect example. How often when you're in a meeting wiv a super-wealthy person does he/she interupt flow to say "thank you" to the tea lady who brings a cuppa into the room? Answer is, thankfully, very often. Generally - and it's a sweeping generalisation- salesmen of boats, nice cars, etc etc make a big mistake of forgetting the clear fact that a huge number of the £1m+ free cash people have made it themselves in the last 15yrs from ordinary backgrounds and therefore look ordinary and want to stay that way. So they should wise up and ask Matts "where will you moor it" question.

In summary, there was no snobbery or peering down nose by this BB in the response DFL got. Also, I thort we all agreed we wd talk about boats from now on. Go and see the post about that fabulous steel boat under the "bare hull fitout" thread, frexample

JFM

 

[Guest]

Re: DFL not treated snobbishly

Good stuff in both arguments here. I concocted the idea of the DFL thing in a backchannel chat with BarryD, as I felt he was getting a raw deal from certain directions. I've enjoyed boating in anything that floats, and I hope always will, but I saw too much of the "you're not rich enough to play here" coming out.

DFL was never meant to be serious, just remind some folks what boating is about - having fun on the water, not comparing the size (and fuelling arrangements) of your X foot plastic (or wood) penis extension.

 

[Bergman]

Re: Boats \'n noses

Once asked a motorcycle salesman (?!?) why he didn't throw out a small group of kids playing with the bikes.

I'd like to he said but next year they may be customers.

Hes still in business

 

[ArthurWood]

Re: Boats \'n noses

Suspects vs prospects in sales vernacular. Suspects often become prospects if properly treated on first contact. To use a well-worn expression, "people buy from people." Funnily enough, as with someone else's experience, the only salesperson I have ever had ask probing sales questions at a show and actually follow up several times afterwards was from Sealine, US.

 

[MikeBrazier]

Re: Boats \'n noses

The main reason I myself attended SBS with my partner was to get aboard both the Fairline Phantom 43 & 46 (at least I hope i got that bit right). When I found them I had a good look round the outside but could not get aboard for love nor money! They were view by appointment and were crawling with salesmen all standing defensivly or in the transom gate with their backs to the pontoon. Needless to say I thought 'stuff it then' and walked away.

We were however welcomed aboard some of the Princesses including the 22M or 25M or whatever it was, and spent ages going through the cabins cupboards and lockers with the staff being charming and helpfull the whole time. We also had a good look round the huge Sealine which was there without any problems. Both of these I could never afford, the ones I might be able to run to eventually, I couldn't get near. Work that one out, I couldnt.

It leaves you thinking, what is the point of accepting a customers offer to show his/her new boat if you are going to stipulate that hardly anyone is allowed on board. Why dont the larger companies just fit a set of boats out specifically for shows then sell them on when they have finished with them! It is probably as cost effective as giving a whole string of customers huge discounts for showing their boats over a period of time.

Regards
Mike

 

[c_j]

Re: Boats \'n noses

You cannot trade with eveyone and part of buying a boat is finding out who you can trade with. Look on refusal to view as a clear indication that this boat is not for you. As I have said many times before Sunseeker lost a potential customer when they refused my wife and four boys entry to a SS at the SBS last year.

They allowed me on seperately at the water and that just made it worse.

We did have a look round this year but it is now just a family rule that we don't buy SS.

Believe me I am probably the scruffiest in the Marina that owns a boat but I learnt the lesson at an early date when I worked as a camera salesman.
I looked down my nose at the Binman who jumped off the back of the cart going past the shop and came in asked to look at the most expensive Camera we stocked which he had seen in the window.

I reluctantly took the camera out and placed it on the counter and I still remain squeamish to this day, when I recollect they way I begrudgingly explained the uses and virtues of this particular model.

He bought it with a carrier bag full of £5 pound notes which he took out of his inside jacket pocket.

I can still remember the knowing smile from Les Boyd the Company director who had watched the whole thing and knew that in those few minutes I had recieved sales training that could never have been given by the Company.

And yet only a year later I nearly made the same mistake with a bloke who leant his dirty old black bike up against the shop window and again made the individual largest purchase from the company in that year.

I quite like driving the 911 in my scruffy jeans and the job I do now means that at times I do get dirty.

It also helps if you really want to look at a Phantom 43 or 46 or a Prinnie 45 to have made contact with the likes of Fairline and Princess prior to the boat shows and found the sales people you can get on with so as a tour of the boats is without question.

CJ

 

[MikeBrazier]

Re: Boats \'n noses

I agree with most of what you say, only that I would rather it was me who decided what I can and cannot look at or buy, not some agent or sales person who doesnt know me from Adam.

I would recommend to anyone who is going to a show to look at a particular boat or boats that they contact the relevant companies in advance. At least then you can turn up on the pontoon with a foot already in the door, 'My name is Mr ...., you are expecting me'.

These people should realise that there is a lot of self made people around these days, the sort of people who just wear what the heck they want and dont seek approval from anyone! but once again, if they are expecting you theres not a lot they could do about it, is there.

Regards
Mike

 

[Guest]

Re: DFL not treated snobbishly

I don't think we were too guilty re DFL. I banged on a Barry D pre-buying, diesels etc, and fell for DFL (Fraid I know loads dafter than that...) but no point in saying "ooh you shdn't have bort that".

 

[Guest]

Re: Whatever...

I think it's become a little less cliquey and a little more helpful of late, which is no bad thing. Thanks for the idea about leaving the ladder down in the marina - last time I fell in it took an age to find somewhere to get out.

 

[Guest]

Re: \"the last time\"?

Um how often do you fall in then? Actually, bit of a shock at Lymington recently after a summer in the med - the pontoons are very narrow. So you can blame that if you want.