boats and cars becoming too complicated

F

fitlike

Member
Joined
1 Sep 2010
Messages
23
Visit site
:devilish:Is it just me, cars and boats pre 2000 (I would even goes as far and say pre-1990), generally had simpler gear, simpler engines and systems. Systems that the average DIYer could pull out the tool box and fix. Nowadays everything is a sealed box or requires a specialist tool, lift the bonnet of a car these days and it can take 30 minutes of dismantling before you can even see the spark plugs!

Now I know cars etc. are more reliable, safer these days, but do they have to be so DIY unfriendly. Hence my preference for older boats, with simpler systems that can be fixed just about anywhere. Is it just me?

IM :D
 
In the case of a car's engine, I think that is the price you pay for 20k service intervals, 50mpg consumption, low emissions, no oil loss, etc. And if it does go titzup, there's always a tow truck to haul you off to a dealer's workshop.

No tow trucks at sea, so on a boat it's pretty essential you can fix a simple mechanical fault yourself. I reckon I could on mine (as long as there was no damage to internal components), which is a recent model. Nothing too complex about a Yanmar 3YM20, actually probably easier to work on than the 10-horse Bukh that was in my Twister.
 
I think that cars are getting easier-for example my top accessed self contained fuel filter and top access upward pointing oil filter with paper element.Remove the air inlet hose and they are on and off in a few minutes.The unscrew fuel filter on my Nissan Terrano in the 1990s often needed a filter grip to remove it as did the throw away oil filters on cars from the 1970s onwards.
Similarly to do the clutch once the drive shafts are removed gearbox is taken off without having to remove engine as was the case in for example a mini metro.
The electronic units are a pain when they go haywire and because they are very expensive to replace new no one wants to remove them.
However if you go via second hand bits on e bay /part finder or similar as I have recently on my Citroen C3 then they are very easy to remove and replace.
As for the engines themselves the Hdi varieties with which I am familiar if looked after go on forever.
Far more so than the engines from the 1960s and 1970s!
As for my boat the mercedes OM636 is totally traditional and fix yourself down to the washable oil filter.
 
Last edited:
As Twister Ken says, it's the price we pay for efficiency and environmental performance, but I'd also add "refinement" to that - at least in the case of modern diesels. Much of the complexity is forced upon us by environmental legislation - cats (which then needed lambda sensors and fuel injection to work) and then on-board diagnostics and fault logging. Latterly, particulate filters on diesels.
 
My (sadly long gone) 1980s Jaguar XJS frightened me when looking in the engine compartment. From memory you had to remove half the engine just to change the oil filter. I also remember it had a physical spinning governor to control the engine revs - I don't think I've made that up, but it was a long time ago.
 
ffiill said:
Similarly to do the clutch once the drive shafts are removed gearbox is taken off without having to remove engine as was the case in for example a mini metro.

Oi! I used to replace the clutch in my Mini without taking the engine out. Regular queue of friends who needed like-wise.

Edit: Tend to think that modern cars are designed to line the pockets of the dealers...but might be wrong....
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
fitlike said:
Now I know cars etc. are more reliable, safer these days, but do they have to be so DIY unfriendly. Hence my preference for older boats, with simpler systems that can be fixed just about anywhere. Is it just me?
Click to expand...

It's not just you. I have a Citroën DS, which is about as complicated a mechanical-era cars as there is, and it's a doddle to work on compared to modern stuff. though a living hell compared to my Triumph Herald. These modern floating caravans with hot and cold running water, distributed power systems and all the other gubbins of Calderisation are all very well, but they are going to be bloody nightmares to maintain as they get old.

Of course there is a perfectly good counter argument to say that older boats are so undesirable in general that there is no point in building a boat to last long. You may as well throw together a flimsy hull and stick in all the home comforts you can with the money saved. Nobody is going to want a twenty year old AWB so nobody will care if it's unrepairable.
 
Just plug an ODB II Bluetooth dongle (£10ish off eBay) into the socket next to the steering wheel, and your phone will tell you exactly what's wrong with your car.
 
DownWest said:
Edit: Tend to think that modern cars are designed to line the pockets of the dealers...but might be wrong....
Click to expand...

I think you're right there. In real terms, cars are very cheap these days so dealers have to make profit on service and repairs. I bought my wife a Rover 216 in 1989, list price £10,500, no power steering, no aircon etc. Awful car but, could be DIY serviced. Now, 24 years later, you can buy a new car with everything fitted for under £10,000 but, on some, you can't even fit a new light bulb without paying the dealer to re-program the thing!
 
Although, they tend to sell what the public will buy. I'll be interested to see how these new Dacias take off. If people really DO want "no-frills" cars without the bells & whistles, they should start flying out of the showrooms!
 
elton said:
Just plug an ODB II Bluetooth dongle (£10ish off eBay) into the socket next to the steering wheel, and your phone will tell you exactly what's wrong with your car.
Click to expand...


I wish! Still, at least it'll give you an obscure fualt code or two - which may or may not be whats causing the trouble!
 
JumbleDuck said:
It's not just you. I have a Citroën DS, which is about as complicated a mechanical-era cars as there is, and it's a doddle to work on compared to modern stuff. though a living hell compared to my Triumph Herald. These modern floating caravans with hot and cold running water, distributed power systems and all the other gubbins of Calderisation are all very well, but they are going to be bloody nightmares to maintain as they get old.

Of course there is a perfectly good counter argument to say that older boats are so undesirable in general that there is no point in building a boat to last long. You may as well throw together a flimsy hull and stick in all the home comforts you can with the money saved. Nobody is going to want a twenty year old AWB so nobody will care if it's unrepairable.
Click to expand...

Oh wow, a DS! I used to have one of those! I think the thing with the DS (and other big Citroens) was that access was a big problem, so most big jobs took a long time because of all the bits that had to come off before you could get to the bit you wanted. Other than being very hard work, it was, as you say, relatively straightforward (not that I ever tried taking the hydraulic gear selector mechanism to bits, mind)! At least you could tell where the fault was by looking for the trail of green fluid. Electronics have an infuriating habit of looking the same when they're broken as they do when they're working!
 
Avocet said:
Oh wow, a DS! I used to have one of those! I think the thing with the DS (and other big Citroens) was that access was a big problem, so most big jobs took a long time because of all the bits that had to come off before you could get to the bit you wanted. Other than being very hard work, it was, as you say, relatively straightforward (not that I ever tried taking the hydraulic gear selector mechanism to bits, mind)!
Click to expand...

You are quite right. A DS is basically made up of a very large number of fairly simple parts, so there tends to be a lot of dismantling required to solve a problem. That's unlike modern cars which generally use a small number of very complicated parts which are simply swapped as required. I don't attempt to repair hydraulic bits on my DS, but otherwise everything is perfectly doable, if time-consuming. And the ride when it's all working is just Out. Of. This. World.
 
My wife's car has failed the MOT because the SRS Airbag light stays on, the car is a Mercedes and it will cost £1,300 to fix; it can not be done diy because you have to have the "right tools" to reconfigure everything. It is unnecessary complicated which allows garage dealers to charge what they feel like. Hope boats don't go this way too, and definitely don't need airbags in the cockpit.
 
I took a leap into simplicity by selling my cruiser and buying a Drascombe Lugger, not much to go wrong there. My toy car is a '79 Lightweight Land Rover, truly a very uncomfortable car but I always have a smile on when driving especially in summer with the roof and doors off. Only tool needed is a small shifter, oh and a hammer.
 
Avocet said:
Although, they tend to sell what the public will buy. I'll be interested to see how these new Dacias take off. If people really DO want "no-frills" cars without the bells & whistles, they should start flying out of the showrooms!
Click to expand...

In France they are flying out of the showrooms.

They also seem to be pretty reliable - I guess because there is much less to go wrong than on some other cars.

No idea though whether they are robust enough to last 15 years or more.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top