Boat training

[sealine]

Often when I take friends out on my boat, They get visions of skippering a boat of there own. So the same thing gets asked time and time again, and when I reply to them, they do not believe me and the eyes light up. And that is what do you need to own/skipper a boat.
zilch/nada/nothing. But I do tell them that it would be crazy to even thing about it without getting the correct training, when I tell them what training I done (day skipper, powerboat level 2, ICC, VHF/DSC) they sometimes give me a strange look? Why do it if its not required? my reply is: you've had a good day out with no problems, most of it is due to the training and knowing what to do and when to do it. I do believe that some sort of minimum cert should be required before you can buy a boat.

What do the forum think

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[BarryH]

This has come up before and I think that the forum has been fairly evenly split. Me, on the other hand believes in education before legislation. Boating is one of the last pastimes/hobbies that is so far anywhere near free. Look at any other hobby/pastime and you have to pay or aquire some sort of licence.

Even if there was compulsory testing/licence before anyone used a boat ask yourself

1 Who would police it
2 How much extra would it cost you
3 How long before a tax on sea use would be introduced

They're just the points that spring to mind before I've really sat down and thought about it. I agree with you. I'd urge anyone who wants to buy/use a boat to get training before going out. But before everyone shouts for compulsory training/licencing take a look at the accident statistics of uk boating compared to other countries.

I'm now going to don my tin hat, have a fag then bugger of down the pub.

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[HWINO]

As a newbie onto this forum, (Boss lady nagged me to stop reading over her shoulder)/forums/images/icons/shocked.gif, I tend to agree that all yotties and power users should have some basic training , ie collision regs, basic nav , etc, before being let loose to terrify the rest of the boating community.
Having had one or two interesting experiences like coming into the E Looe channel near Poole at night and meeting a small power boating with no lights on at all towing a wakeboarder or watching a 30ish foot yacht sail through the waiting vessels into the side of the chain link ferry at North Haven as it was crossing.
I suspect eventually it will need compulsory regulation

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[oldgit]

Sometimes I think yes and sometimes think no.
Hope this helps/forums/images/icons/laugh.gif

<hr width=100% size=1>If it aint broke fix it till it is.

 

[Geoffs]

Tend to agree with Barry. As has been said so many times before,regulation would serve little purpose. Look at the raods all licensed and heavily regulated, does that keep idiots away, NO!

What do you need to get a boat, zilch/nothing etc.? Not quite true, you need pots of dosh!

<hr width=100% size=1>Old Chinese proverb 'Man who sail boat into rice field, soon get into paddy'

 

[aviator]

I come to boating from flying which is completely regulated. We are definitely taking the training route and are horrified at the thought of people out there with no training and also no recent validation of skills.

You may think that regulation is difficult but in aviation you have a licence which is only valid if you have a certain number of hours during a 12 month period and time with an instructor - not an examination but a check on skills with advice where necessary.

There is no gestapo and I have never been asked for my licence. However if you have a problem you could be charged under aviation law and insurance could be invalid. Oh and a medical must be current.

I am enjoying taking my first boat out on non-tidal Thames with only local tuition from the boatyard and this has been fine. However come the tidal Thames move at the end of the month I am signed up for the serious stuff and the RYA syllabus.

It will be most interesting to see a new dimension to navigation and for sure the thing that all movement is very slow is very welcome. No pulling over or stopping in aviation!

Who knows I might even give up the flying.....

Richard

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[BarryH]

Without being pedantic. Theres a lot more privately owned boats than there is private aircraft. With aircraft your normally limited to regulated airfields, unless your a smuggler who land anywhere theres a strip of grass! Your avereage airplane is not the sort of thing that can be kept at home on a trailer and hitched up at a moments notice if the weather is fine and launche d at your local slip.

Boating is relatively red tape free. I'd like to keep it that way. If people go and take tuition and traing of their own accord, as you have, all the better. Compulsory training would be a bad thing for the boating world. There would always be people that would do the bare min to get on the water. As geoff has said, the licience to drive a car doe's not stop the idiots, why would boating be any different.

All this would have a knock on effect in the boat building industry. It would make boating of tomorrow what flying is today, a preseve of the lucky few that can afford it. Where as boating does not have to be an expensive hobby. This is bourne out by the diverse mix of people seen at the boat shows and the diverse mix of exhibiters at the shows.

On the whole I can't see it happening. It would have to be adminstered by a Government body. They can Ill afford to run the basic nessecities required in everyday life, let alone set up and run another dept such as the DVLA. I've said it before and I'll say it again, Education before legislation is the only way to go.


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[tcm]

possible Duty of Care rule

It would be hugely expensive to police regulation of individual boaties. So, here's a better way. It works a bit like VAT - instead of chasing up the millions of transactions, you chase up the vendors. It's still not "manadtory" training - but it is "mandatory thinking about training" - sometimes half the battle.

So, the MCA find an accident. They might (or might not) chase the owner regaring the accident. But they (or Registry? RYA? dunno) would ask the owner from whom they bought the boat. And that company would be compelled to ensure that the owner was already (or intended to become) suitably proficient before buying, confirming the same on a standard form that all brokers would have to keep for each boat.

So, if a buyer had no experience of this sort of boat, and had no intetnion of RYA training then they would have to spell out before buying exactly how they were gonna acquire those skills. Informal training with a mate for a few days is fine for smaller boats inshore, something a bit better is appropriate for bigger boats, or a skipper, or whatever.

Snap inspection of one or two dealers' forms for the past month or so would be all the "policing" needed, so not too expensive imho.

Yeah, yeah, the brokers and dealer would just get some standard forms and make sure people signed them, or even naughtily sign them themselves. And/or the buyer might lie his head off about all the training. But at the least the subject would have to be broached - from wherever outlet you bought a boat. And it would be clear if there was a stupid skipper, or a somewhat gung-ho broker dealer telling people that it's all easy peasy.

At the moment, i *think* there's a bit of bravado here and there, with some individual salesbods a bit wary of "putting people off" by raising the subject of training at all. And some others vaguley promise free training to buyers who are rightly concerned, but which is then put back ("we're busy at the moment") till months later, if at all. It's not a real big problem - a few owners, a few salespeople.

This only catches broker/dealer sold boats. But i think that that's good enough. Proprtionally, more (or most) newbies will want to buy from a dealer. Proprtionaly, private buyers are mostly old seadoggy types.

Far too sensible, so it probly won't happen. Ah well.





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[Col]

Think you're missing a big point here.............You ain't gonna get a boat fall through the roof of your house. Hence training required on airyplanes.

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[Col]

You must be Powerskippers "old man" Welcome to the forum.

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[peterandjeanette]

Don't give up the flying. We all need some discipline in our lives. Good grounding for nav. weather, EP's, course to steer etc. Very useful if you go on to YM.

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[alant]

Re: possible Duty of Care rule

They don't appear to have any problem policing abroad, hence the need for an ICC or other certificate of competance. Similarly VAT checking - not just done when carrying out a transaction - this + your boats papers/insurance docs/last port of call/names & details of owner, skipper, crew/etc can be similarly scrutinised/reported at Marinas, anchorages & not just after an accident, by local maritime officials.
However, in UK, how often do we go/return foreign (within EEC) & get a visit from any officialdom? Hardly ever, so yes, local UK policing might not work the same way, but it wouldn't be too difficult, particularly those who like to 'park' alongside at night.

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[HWINO]

Thanks for welcome Col, yes is the answer to question, she refers to me as HWMBO but never does what I tell her, seems to make me fairly typical going by a lot of the posts. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

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[Renegade_Master]

Re: HWINO

I take it thats he who is never obeyed Your missus doesnt happen to be a skipper by any chance?

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