Boat purchase from the USA.

[medusaboat]

I have a number of years general sailing around the coast of the UK and in the Med aboard 20 - 26ft LOA yachts. I have noticed that yacht prices in the US appear to be very competetive compared to over in Europe and have been considering the purchase of one. I appreciate that they may require work to bring them up to RCD spec. and also that VAT will be levied on anything that I purchase, but wondered what you guys out there thought? Has anybody got any good ideas for getting it back over here? Thanks.

 

[Bejasus]

various ways of getting it back include, sail it, get a delivery crew to do it, ship it on the deck of a freighter which requires having a cradle manufactured, or use a company like Dockwise, not a cheap option.

You only need RCD if you intend to resell in EU and you do not need to pay VAT if you remain in EU waters for less than 18 months as a temporary importation. Various complications on this, but if you do a search on here and on the Liveaboard forum, you will find plenty of information sprouting up on a regular basis.

 

[medusaboat]

Thanks for that. To clarify, I am a poor father of three, with a huge mortgage. My desire is for a 30 footer (approx.) which will probably be built late 80s early 90s - would a delivery crew be willing to sail something like this across? I have looked briefly into delivery aboard a freighter, but this seemed prohibitively expensive, I guess I'm simply asking the question, do you guys think that unless I can sail her back myself I am stuck with the high prices over here? Also - does anybody know the legalities of sailing FROM the USA?

 

[BrokerBen]

Bejasus your information is incorrect, I would avoid giving such advice.

If you want to place a non-exempt non-compliant boat into service in the EU it requires a CE Mark, before it can be placed in service or on the market.

In the UK trading standard are currently the enforcers but customs are likely to start checking it soon. In the EU it's a standard dockside check, same as VAT etc, and if you cant produce the documents you will get your boat impounded at your own cost, possibly fined and it'll only be released once you have put it right.

I by no means am trying to put you off, it is very possible to CE Mark a boat on a post-construction basis, but do beware boats with older engines and electrics with little or no documentation will be more costly to bring up to spec.

I worked CE Marking boats for the last 2 years, so have some experience in this field.

 

[BrokerBen]

Also... if you get something lift keel ish and can reduce the draft enough, something of 30 feet should fit in a 40 foot container, allbeit with the mast need to be de-rivetted over there and re-fixed here.

 

[medusaboat]

Hi Ben,
You say that the vessel could be impounded and I could be fined 'dockside' - could I not get the vessel into a yard and have the necessary work done prior to 'putting it into service'
Also - I have no experience of this - what kind of money would I be talking to get a 40ft container shipped from the USA?

 

[BrokerBen]

You can get the boat into a yard and get the work done no worries at all, but beware if you decide to go on a jolly or two it's very possible outside the UK somebody will check your docks.

I would suggest calling around some shipping companies, perhaps find a company shipping empty containers back to this side of the atlantic. They tend to offer space in them very cheaply.

If you let the authorities know in the area you're taking the boat, they will be understanding and let you get on with bringing the boat up to spec. They have however been known to take a dim view of people trying to avoid getting involved.

Call CE Proof International about CE Marking, Alasdair Reay will be able to help you out!

Best of luck with your purchase! What kind of budget/boat did you have in mind? I might know of some tempting vessels around here /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[Bejasus]

Oh dear BrokerBen I suggest you read my post again.
I believe I did say that RCD/(CE) compliance was necesarry if you wanted to sell your boat in the EU. I have found no evidence that says that this applies to yachts visiting EU waters, and one of my first ports of call when I started looking into this, was in fact, CE Proof.
I also did say that the VAT issue had complications. Our boat is a US documented boat and will remain so.

I have also researched the VAT issue very extensively, to the point where I have emails directly from the EU minister in charge of this, explaining the correct procedures regarding VAT to yachts visiting the EU.

Of course if you intend to register your boat in Europe, you will indeed be liable to VAT, although there is an exception to this also I believe, and indeed CE compliance.

 

[BrokerBen]

This chap was planning on buying a boat in the US and bringing it to the EU, thus importing it.

Once imported it's not visiting but most likely going to be registered under an EU territory flag.

Once this is done CE Marking would be required before the boat could be placed in service or on the market.

If you are suggesting he brings the boat over as a visitor then clears off fine, but if it's coming over here to be kept here for good then it'll need CE Marking etc.

 

[Bejasus]

totally agree. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[davierobb]

Have to say that in contextand and wrt to the original post then Bejasas's reply is full of useful information. You should chill out an d mellow a bit.

 

[moondancer]

With the exchange rate as it is, it is looking more attractive.

However, I think it is only worth doing for an expensive boat. The shipping costs and RCD costs would make it more hassle than it is worth for a low cost boat.

Shipping costs could be reduced if you could get your boat into a high cube container. We ship our 24s over from Argentina in a high cube container with the keels removed. This brings the shipping costs down hugely - couple of thousand dollars in a conainer against maybe ten thousand dollars as deck cargo.

 

[Bejasus]

to be fair to BrokerBen, I have to say that I am in a different situation from the original poster, boat is registered in the USA to swimbo who is an American citizen, so she is the actual owner.
She wanted to go cruising in the med before I retire from working in Europe, so I checked most of it out before we purchased last October.
Made the decision to sail it across with a skipper, based on a rediculous quote from Dockwise, and also wanted to do it for miles and experience.
Hope to be in the Balearics for next June.....ish, although we may stop off in the Azores for a month or two.

 

[Lizzie_B]

If you can find a boat in the USA that was built and used in the EEA/EU before 16th June 1998 (not impossible as quite a few people do a transatlantic and then sell their boat in the USA) then it will be exempt RCD compliance requirements.

A friend bought a lovely Nicholson 35 in FL for about 60% of the UK price 2years ago, and sailed her back.

In most cases you will still be liable to VAT, but it is worth shopping around as to which EU country will give you the best deal on this (certainly not UK) /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Talbot]

[ QUOTE ]
My desire is for a 30 footer (approx.) which will probably be built late 80s early 90s - would a delivery crew be willing to sail something like this across? I have looked briefly into delivery aboard a freighter, but this seemed prohibitively expensive,

[/ QUOTE ]
I got quotes for getting a 12m catamaran from Fort Lauderdale, and delivery by boat was not significantly more expensive than using a decent delvery crew (and cheaper when you consder the effect of an ocean passage on the vessel)

Dont forget the VAT, plus ensuring that it is CE compliant and there is another EU piece of nonsense that you have to spend good money passing.

 

[asj1]

What everyone is telling you is that:
- shipping back is very expensive (unless you have access to cheap rates, perhaps you are in the business yourself)
- the Recreational Craft directive now makes this whole process expensive and troublesome.
- therefore it is definitely not worthwhile for the type of boat you want.

Alternatives are)
1) Look in Holland, boats can be cheaper there and sailing back is possible ( I took this route) as NL are in EU VAT and Rec craft directives are much less of a problem.
2) Prices in the UK are dropping as people try and dispose of those assets which cost a lot of money to maintain every month (horses and boats!) in order to pay the much increased mortgage. You can see evidence of this if you compare prices now to two years ago, and from Opal Peters apparently going bust. Use the internet to search for good value boats, then tell the vendor you will only come to see it on the basis that you will pay 20% less than their asking price. Mind you you will spend al ot of time travelling round the country looking at some poorly mainatined boats, but by next summer you will have what you want !!

Regards

 

[PeterGibbs]

In summary? Your costs are going to be a lot more than you perhaps envisage. Going there to buy the boat, surveying etc will cost...Getting the vessel over, insuring it etc will not be cheap, even if you sell the mast in the USA and buy second hand here, saving the freight. So unless you are going to save in the order of £5000-7000 over the gross price of a comparable EU vessel, you will not even break even on the deal.

And sailing such a vessel as you envisage across the Atlantic? Very adventurous I'd say...very.

PWG

 

[Bejasus]

think you meant this for Medusaboat /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[pelicanpete]

I feel so much safer boating in the UK now we have the RCD rules and CE marks on our boats. When I was in the USA earlier this year I was shocked at how many of their boats spontaneously burst into flames, sank at the dock for no apparent reason and caused widespread death and mayhem amongst the boating fraternity there. Thank heavens that our Brussels Bureaucrats are saving us from the same fate!! Allelujah!

 

[Sea Devil]

I am not sure it is such a bad deal - you just need to know the price of CE plating, crossing the Atlantic with it and what is going to have to be changed in order for it to comply.
Having had the same idea I did some research and put a page on my website laying out how to do it... Not that difficult and should still be substantially cheaper than the same boat in the UK - Have a look at the sailing page then go to CE plating.. if you want
Michael