Theshipscat
Well-Known Member
Has anyone experience of partner ownership? Is it worth it?
Boat partnerships with moorings or sunsail
- Thread starter Theshipscat
- Start date
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Yes, not with those two but similar arrangement with another big organisation.
Whether it is worth it depends entirely on your circumstances and what you hope to get out of it. As a means of buying a boat for future use in a location where, say you want to retire, it has merits. As a straightforward financial investment, probably not. The real return is in the "free" usage of the boat (or another boat) during the contract. If you are unable to take up your "weeks" or sell them on it is probably not worth it. The major problem is disposing of the boat at the end where prices are very uncertain.
Happy to comment on specific schemes as they vary in structure.
Whether it is worth it depends entirely on your circumstances and what you hope to get out of it. As a means of buying a boat for future use in a location where, say you want to retire, it has merits. As a straightforward financial investment, probably not. The real return is in the "free" usage of the boat (or another boat) during the contract. If you are unable to take up your "weeks" or sell them on it is probably not worth it. The major problem is disposing of the boat at the end where prices are very uncertain.
Happy to comment on specific schemes as they vary in structure.
RupertW
Well-Known Member
It didn't suit us
We looked at this for a few years, and after selling our boat in the UK we chartered a few times partly to find out where we'd like to base a charter boat. In the end we thought that our main pleasure in chartering was going to different places, so being tied down to one spot wouldn't work unless we had the advantages of full ownership - i.e. all your kit kept on board, fiddling with things to work the way you want them, and being able to sail whenever you could get down there. The other real issue for us was seeing the difference in breakages from one charter boat to the next - you could never know whether you'd own the unlucky boat which would be continuously given to the worst crews once it had received its first visible bash.
We thought it better to charter until we wanted to own a boat abroad somewhere then find an ex-charter boat with it's breakages already done so we knew what we'd be getting and negotiate accordingly. Did that last year and are very slowly getting the boat back into a decent condition when we can afford it. The rest of the time we just sail it from one Med anchorage to another whenever we can fly over. So far, so good.
We looked at this for a few years, and after selling our boat in the UK we chartered a few times partly to find out where we'd like to base a charter boat. In the end we thought that our main pleasure in chartering was going to different places, so being tied down to one spot wouldn't work unless we had the advantages of full ownership - i.e. all your kit kept on board, fiddling with things to work the way you want them, and being able to sail whenever you could get down there. The other real issue for us was seeing the difference in breakages from one charter boat to the next - you could never know whether you'd own the unlucky boat which would be continuously given to the worst crews once it had received its first visible bash.
We thought it better to charter until we wanted to own a boat abroad somewhere then find an ex-charter boat with it's breakages already done so we knew what we'd be getting and negotiate accordingly. Did that last year and are very slowly getting the boat back into a decent condition when we can afford it. The rest of the time we just sail it from one Med anchorage to another whenever we can fly over. So far, so good.
Theshipscat
Well-Known Member
Hi
How long before the boat is for your soul use or of no use to the Charter company? Any experience on damage? Are repairs carried out correctly?
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Contracts vary, but the norm is 6 seasons. For example in Greece that is the life of charter registration. Also operators like to refresh their fleet regularly. However, there are some deals that are shorter to give the operator more flexibility, and at other times they may ask to extend it. At the moment fleets are getting older, but for obvious reasons they tend only to keep the boats they own.
The schemes can be split into two broad types. The first is where you own the boat outright and you receive a regular income. This can be either a fixed %age or a %age of income - plus your Free weeks (usually enough for two holidays a year). You need to be very careful about how these are structured as you could be liable for tax on the income. Also in some countries it is difficult to get clear ownership title because charter boats can only be owned by nationals. Like everything there is always a way round this but I don't know how secure they are.
The second type you pay a proportion of the capital value (usually around 50%) and all running costs are met by the operator and you get your weeks, but no income. Typically if you borrow the money, annual interest charges are less than 2 weeks' charter fees. Title is usually joint with the operator and probably a bank which funds the other half of the boat. In my case that was cleared after 3 years.
In both cases, at the end of the contract you can either keep the boat or sell it to the operator. Depending on where it is you may have to pay VAT if you take it. Typically the written down value (on which VAT may be based) is 50% of the original total contract value. This may be more or less than the market value - difficult to predict 6 years ahead, but in my experience market values are lower.
As to maintenance and repairs, the first decision is where to base it. Different locations place different demands on the boats. The Ionian (where my boat was based) is well known for being a benign sailing area and apart from bumps and scrapes wear is low. The things that give problems are electrics and domestic items and operators generally keep on top of this because if they don't they lose business. It helps to use your boat at least once a year - I used to go twice at the beginning and end of season to ensure the boat is kept up to scratch. The biggest downside of the whole process is the handover at the end where you have to sign that the boat is in the state required by the contract. I sat on my boat for 10 days ensuring that all the faults (not many) were corrected. However it is at end of season and your boat can be low priority!
Is it worth it? Well, on balance I don't regret it. I could never have afforded to own a boat like that if I had to pay all the running costs. For me it was the retirement boat and the actual boat was exactly what we wanted. However you need to have a long term view to go down that route as getout is potentially expensive. The other type of owner who can do well is one who would (either on their own or with partners) use all the weeks and trade in the boat regularly for newer or bigger/smaller model as circumstances change. Net costs may be lower than chartering and often with the big companies you have a choice of where you go.
Hope this helps
Mr Cassandra
Well-Known Member
Theshipscat
Well-Known Member
Wonderful, thanks for all that.
Moorings are offering a 43, Beneteau for £99,000 and a guarenteed income to cover the cost of the yacht. Sounds a bit too good to be true!
Moorings are offering a 43, Beneteau for £99,000 and a guarenteed income to cover the cost of the yacht. Sounds a bit too good to be true!
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Then it probably is. Moorings is not a charity so you can be sure that the scheme is weighted in their favour. But worth pursuing if the terms seem to match what you want. You can get access to Sunsail contracts on their website. I bought my boat through Kiriacoulis in Athens and you can see their contracts on their agent's website www.yachtfractions.co.uk.
