Boat ID

[Farrelley]

Hi all,

after a long time lurking and intently reading everything I can find relating to big expensive bath toys, I have decided that now may be the time to purchase one.

I have taken past advice and contacted my local Yacht club ~(Gravesend) they seem great and will be joining them for their shared knowledge and hopefully I'll learn from their mistakes so I won't have to make them

As you can probably tell I'm a complete novice but am eager to 'jump in' and hopefully get some training/crewing under my belt so I could perhaps set out to the muddy place (The Medway) on my own sometime in the summer.

I started loitering here at about the same time as JFM started his build and couldn't wait for his next group of pictures to be posted - You are a lucky man sir!

Then saw a couple of videos from a grumpy man in a boat who liked mud and disliked twazzocks, after a few more I became a big fan of Mr Winters. He has become what I inspire to be.. maybe less grumpy, nothing against JFM but my bank balance wont stretch that far.

I have since looked at a few boats and have decided to go for a 18-20 ft bilge keel sailing boat to start me off. Preferably 4 berth so I can take the family out when I'm ready. I am on a tight budget, this may be alien to a lot of you judging by your posts/boats, but everyone has to start somewhere right?

So I thought I would break my YBW cherry and say hi and thanks for all the advice I have learnt from you guys already

Ohh and any idea what make or model this boat is? -



Thanks

 

[Farrelley]

Only day before my first post appeared, thank you mods.

 

[dylanwinter]

Don't buy that

This will save you a lot of time

Don't buy a small cheap bilge keeler

Buy a deep keel sea kindly home built ferro-cement boat with a traditional gaff rig and a lot of baggywrinkle

or

Save up for a proper boat and buy a Nick 36 or Southerly 42

Thats my advice anyway

thanks for the nice words about KTL by the way

might see you deep up a creek one day

the boat looks perfect for a starter and mud is very kind when it comes to accidentally going aground

the only thing you need to spend money on is a dead reliable outboard with plenty of clean fresh fuel

after that everything else is you add is an indlugence and it does not really matter what you buy as long as it is a bit like the boat in the picture




Dylan

 

[wytco0]

Ohh and any idea what make or model this boat is? -



Thanks

Welcome from a fellow novice. Regarding that boat I can positivly identify it as a sailing boat

 

[VicS]

Gravesend is a good friendly club I believe. I have known several members in the past although not in touch with any now.

Got any more pictures of the boat. One from the other end showing the cockpit and cabin top would be helpful perhaps.

It looks like it has a hard chined hull. Does it? If so probably a GRP version of something originally made in plywood.

 

[tom_sail]

Firstly welcome to the forums! Although it looks like you have been here for a while

It's funny how other people's adventures inspire you. This time last year I was inspired my NathanLee, another forumite, who also loved filming himself getting up to mischief on the water!

Onkudu.com No doubt you'll have already come across him.

Unfortunately I can't help on the ID of that boat looks very good condition though!

 

[harstonwood]

Seems to have something poking out of the roof? Cut that off and it should be fine

 

[Farrelley]

Gravesend is a good friendly club I believe. I have known several members in the past although not in touch with any now.

Got any more pictures of the boat. One from the other end showing the cockpit and cabin top would be helpful perhaps.

It looks like it has a hard chined hull. Does it? If so probably a GRP version of something originally made in plywood.

Yes they seem very helpful and friendly at Gravesend

I am going to have a look at the boat on Saturday and will take a few pictures, that is the only picture I have at the moment. The guy selling it didn't know the make but did say it was a GRP 'hard chined' hull. I just made a noise and pretended I knew what he was on about. I will have to use my friend google I suppose.

I was just curious to see if anyone would instantly recognize the make and tell me about an inherent flaw which causes them to break in two and sink without warning. Perhaps I should be less paranoid?

Also if anyone could give me a few pointers as to what I should watch out for so that some one of limited knowledge could steer clear of a floating lemon?

And yes I know of and have watched Nathan Lee too, was enthralled with his sailing exploits, less so with his motorbike tour of the North

 

[wytco0]

This will save you a lot of time

Don't buy a small cheap bilge keeler

Buy a deep keel sea kindly home built ferro-cement boat with a traditional gaff rig and a lot of baggywrinkle

or

Save up for a proper boat and buy a Nick 36 or Southerly 42

Thats my advice anyway

thanks for the nice words about KTL by the way

might see you deep up a creek one day

the boat looks perfect for a starter and mud is very kind when it comes to accidentally going aground

the only thing you need to spend money on is a dead reliable outboard with plenty of clean fresh fuel

after that everything else is you add is an indlugence and it does not really matter what you buy as long as it is a bit like the boat in the picture




Dylan

Confused of Norfolk here, Dylan is this a complete re-write of the normal Dylan mantra, buy anything and have fun?

I havn't seen you suggesting big expensive boats for novices before, or have I just completely missunderstood this post?

 

[Frankie-H]

Welcome to the forum. I too watched for years and finally took the plunge.

However I am lucky enough to have been sailing for many years in many different types of boats and I am presently based in a port in the South of France, where many new boats are comissioned. Please do not buy a large and expensive first boat. I see this every year and I can assure you that, either you will be so frightened of it that you will sit and look at it, without actually taking it to sea. OR it will scare you to death when it meets its first gale. Perhaps more important. Your loved ones will be equally frightened. My daughter was forced into 'perfectly safe' sailing some 40 years ago and she has not been aboard for the last 20 years. Her children have never sailed.

No sob story but firstly you must learn how to sail. Then you must learn how to navigate. Then you must learn how to live in a small, wet box, with your family and friends.

My advice would be to start off with your small cruiser or even a day sailor. Get as much experience as you can and do the recommended courses. Watch the weather forcasts and do your best not to frighten, either yourself or your family. A little trepidation is good. Terror will stop you sailing.

You would not jump out of a perfectly good aeroplane, without lots of training. The landing is not quite so painful but the same theory applies to boats.

I love my boat, which I have lived on for 16 years and I would never put people off sailing but please take it very gently and may the learning be kind to you.

 

[maby]

This will save you a lot of time

Don't buy a small cheap bilge keeler

Buy a deep keel sea kindly home built ferro-cement boat with a traditional gaff rig and a lot of baggywrinkle

...
Dylan

Speaking as a Medway creek-crawler, the decision is more complex that Dylan suggests.

We've owned two small bilge keelers on the Medway and now upgraded to a larger, deep keel boat. The new Jeanneau handles beautifully and we love her, but I'm glad we had the little bilgers first - there are plenty of places round the Medway and Thames that we can no longer visit!

If you are going to cut your teeth round the Thames and Medway, there's no getting away from the fact that there's not a lot of water about quite a lot of the time... Our little bilgers would float in a couple of feet of water and, if we got it wrong and ran out of the stuff, we could just sit on the mud for a few hours and enjoy the view. The SO33i, on the other hand, wants six feet of the stuff and if we get it wrong, we are going to spend a very uncomfortable period tipped on our sides waiting for it to come back!

We had outgrown a shallow draft bilger and decided it was time to spread our wings a bit, but I certainly would not rule one out for a couple of years while you learn if you are Thames based. There's no doubt that a deep keel will be a lot more comfortable for open sea sailing and I would think twice before spending a lot of money on a bilger, but even that decision is not so clear cut if you are an east coast sailor - look at the charts. There are great big swathes of the east coast that are now effectively out of bounds to us. Yachts are slow things and if you are Gravesend based, you will have to sail for more than a day in each direction before you get to waters where the deep keel is better than the bilge - do you have enough free time to do that often?

 

[Applescruffs]

Gravesend can be quite an uncomfortable billet for a small cruising boat on an overnight and the tide certainly rips up and down around there ..still people have been using the club for around 100 years so I guess it can't be all bad!.

Say hello to Leon for me...I met him , as a visitor, once-upon-a year-ago...now here's a boat for shallow water and mud....a Dauntless...on second thoughts...though maybe not ideal for the tyro.

Get any small , (GRP), bilge keeler...spend around £750 and go for it....best advise for a novice is to get a reliable outboard....forget seagulls and small 2-strokes....go for a quality 4-stroke...it could cost as much as the boat but then the Thames is a Big river....Big currents....great if you know how to use them , but it's a scary monster if you don't.

Why not get-some-in as a crew first?... volunteer to crew with a member to see if it's what you are comfortable with.

That said...just go for it...I mean...what's the worst that could happen? (rhetorical !)

 

[Lakesailor]

Confused of Norfolk here, have I just completely missunderstood this post?

I think you've got the drift.

 

[Lakesailor]

So I thought I would break my YBW cherry

Oh! It's a much more humiliating and painful process than a simple posting.

 

[Hugh Foulis]

Lakey,

Dylan has omitted his recommendation for an anchor to suit the concrete cruiser, and indeed which set of colregs the new sailor should follow. Can you help in this instance?

HF

 

[VicS]

BUT what is the boat that is the subject of the thread.

Surely someone must recognise it

.

 

[William_H]

New to sailing

The problem with "sailing" as a pass time is that it encompasses a huge range of activities costs and commitments. We have local guy who sailed around the Swan River taking weeks in a canoe with a small sail. He wrote a book which makes it all seem a real adventure.
By contrast I sail (race) the same area almost every Sunday afternoon but certainly not looking at the detail.
Then there is the other extreme of people sailing the world and writing books which also inspire us.
It is interesting that the internet blog can seem very inspiring and are written by many people.
The real problem is to find what suits you in the way of sailing. You see it is all a matter of dreams and fulfillment. So the biggest problem is to find what suits you your family and your dreams.
I started by reading stories of ocean conquests and that became the dream. I built a few boats and did a bit of sailing. Circumstances changed and almost by accident I bough my present boat a trailer sailer. Circumstances changed again and I returned to where I started but now with the trailer sailer. I joined the local yacht club and the boat turned out to race really nicely. A bit of glory and I was hooked.
Strangely the adventure dream has disappeared being replaced by regular racing. Now many will disparage that and I don't necessarily disagree. The thing is that the boat type seems also to be able to bend the dream to suit. So because the boat is not suitable for ocean crossings (21ft) then that dream has gone.
Other very nice aspects opened up. My sons got into a sailing school for juniors and before I knew it I was instructor along with SWMBO and eventually the 2 boys. A very satisfying activity. A joy I would not want to have missed. I still do a bit of adult teaching and this is a lot of fun.
But still the madness of Sun afternoon racing. I come home exhausted promising never again but always out there again. (now 29 seasons or about 800 races same boat) So many good friends at the club and recently and honorary life membership.

By contrast many people buy a boat and never actually use it or if they do only to a limited extent. At least a racing calender gets you out there. So now nearer the end of my sailing than the beginning I wonder if I had bought a bigger boat if I would have traveled further and done wonderous voyages.
But ultimately I can say I did what suited me and no real regrets.
I have towed the boat a little to other places to sail. Indeed it is only a matter of pulling it from the water on the trailer and doing it. Maybe I will again soon though it seems so easy to put it off.

So my advice would be to pursue the crewing at the Yacht Club. People around here are always looking for a crew who will commit to being available skill doesn't matter so much.
Yes by all means buy a boat there is a huge satisfaction in being responsible for the boat and crew
but keep it well within your budget so giving you flexibility to do just as you wish. I would go just a little bigger than 18ft and think 21ft really good. But that is me

 

[William_H]

A few more thoughts

Just a few more thoughts. Successful moving into boat ownership really is about you and your needs or preferences. If you buy a boat too small you will not get enough enjoyment out of it to really get into it.
If you buy a boat too big you may waste a lot of money on a boat you don't use enough. Either way it is a hassle changing boats. Yet sometimes that is the only way to find out what suits you.

"I am on a tight budget, this may be alien to a lot of you judging by your posts/boats, but everyone has to start somewhere right?"

Of course there are the rich who can afford to waste money on a seldom used boat but I think you will find for most on this forum with bigger boats it is a matter of committing much of their life (cash and time) to boating and so they can afford the bigger boat. Which of course is great if that is your thing. Not much good if you decide you don't like boating or just don't get around to it. And of course your preferences can change.
I have a friend who is a master mariner by trade. He bought a 50 odd ft Ketch and sailed it around the world over several years with his wife. He has returned to our club and bought a 24fter. I asked him if he had any desire to go to sea again. No way was the answer. He will be happy to sail in our estuary and never sea the ocean again in a small boat. And incidentally he has had to go back to work again after the voyage sapped his funds. He is a ships pilot.
So good luck in the quest. Obviously many on this forum love their boats and sailing. Bit many boat owners judging by the neglect of their boats do not. I have discovered that I love getting on my boat but after a couple of hours I love getting off it. So while it has nice bunks down below I love my own bed best. good luck olewill

 

[onesea]

best advise for a novice is to get a reliable outboard....forget seagulls and small 2-strokes....go for a quality 4-stroke...

Not trying to start a debate 2 stroke / 4 stroke but I would suggest reliable. Which ever it has 2 stroke 4 stroke make sure its reliable. Do not worry if its 2 stroke, personally it would be my choice.

 

[ProDave]

Ohh and any idea what make or model this boat is? -



Thanks

A Caprice 20' bilge keeler

Here's the first picture I found of another one http://www.coburgbrokers.com/capri.html