Boat crew/pax capacity certification

[Irish Rover]

My boat has a C€ certificate with a max capacity of 20 persons Category D. My boat is UK part 1 registered. I'm in Türkiye on a Transit log and I can only carry crew/pax who are listed on the TL. As you can imagine I have lots of guests during the year and I try to get the max number on the TL at the start to save having to do crew changes. The harbour master used to accept a photo of the on-board plaque with the max capacities listed but is now asking for something from the UKSR showing the max capacity. Is it possible to get such a document?

 

[Boathook]

Nothing mentioned on the part 1 about complying with the RCD rating ? Would you be able to go online and add a note to the certificate and then reprint it ?

I'm only used to the SSR I must add.

 

[Tranona]

No connection between carrying capacity and Registration - purely a register of nationality and title. In the UK the MCA manages the small commercial vessel codes which determine carrying capacity for individual UK registered vessels Small craft codes of practice There are no formal restrictions on carrying capacity on private leisure boats although in the event of an incident exceeding the RCD capacity would probably feature in any claim citing negligence. Thankfully such incidents are rare.

The RCD was never intended to form a basis licencing of boats but many lazy states use it rather than go to the trouble of developing proper commercial standards. In some ways it is good as it allows people to use boats commercially without going to the expense of individual certification to a higher standard in terms of such matters as watertight integrity and safety equipment.

Probably difficult to communicate this to your harbour master

 

[dunedin]

As others have said UK recreational craft registration has nothing related to the RCD passenger numbers.
But the boat should have come with a bunch of original paperwork related to the RCD certification stuff, so perhaps there is a certificate in there that you can use.

 

[Irish Rover]

Replies so far bear out what I thought myself. Part of my problem is that the HM will not deal direct. Everything has to be done through an agent. I gave them the Builder's Certificate (doesn't mention carrying capacity) and the original EU Declaration of Confirmity which specifies the carrying capacity as per the Builder's Plate on board which I photographed (below) and gave to them. Not good enough. They came back with some bullcrap about the definition of a passenger ship under SOLAS and said the max allowed is 12. They will only accept something different if it's certified by the British licensing authority - I think they know this is impossible to get so it's a convenient way of saying f off and stop annoying is.

 

[Tranona]

TBH they have a point. Cat D is inland flat waters only - rowing boat stuff. Cat B is offshore. 12 people is the maximum you would get if you used that boat commercially in the UK (assuming it met the rest of the code). The RCD calculations are just mechanistic. 3000kgs is the maximum load, people are assumed to average 75kgs (I wish!) and baggage allowance per person reduces as numbers increase on the basis that crew going ocean or offshore need more including food, water etc than those just sitting on board on a lake drinking Pimms

All a bit of a game really

 

[Bouba]

As far as I remember, these are self classifications by the boat manufacturers...I would start with them...if you have all the original paperwork and books, you might have the official certificate already

 

[Irish Rover]

TBH they have a point. Cat D is inland flat waters only - rowing boat stuff. Cat B is offshore. 12 people is the maximum you would get if you used that boat commercially in the UK (assuming it met the rest of the code). The RCD calculations are just mechanistic. 3000kgs is the maximum load, people are assumed to average 75kgs (I wish!) and baggage allowance per person reduces as numbers increase on the basis that crew going ocean or offshore need more including food, water etc than those just sitting on board on a lake drinking Pimms

All a bit of a game really

What's really bloody annoying is my current TL has 19 listed, but my wife's sister who's coming to visit next week is bringing 3 friends with her.
Anyway, I take your point. In the end I'm just venting. Changing the crew list again, if I need to, is not a big deal and will only cost around €50.

 

[ylop]

Replies so far bear out what I thought myself. Part of my problem is that the HM will not deal direct. Everything has to be done through an agent. I gave them the Builder's Certificate (doesn't mention carrying capacity) and the original EU Declaration of Confirmity which specifies the carrying capacity as per the Builder's Plate on board which I photographed (below) and gave to them. Not good enough. They came back with some bullcrap about the definition of a passenger ship under SOLAS and said the max allowed is 12. They will only accept something different if it's certified by the British licensing authority - I think they know this is impossible to get so it's a convenient way of saying f off and stop annoying is.
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Has your agent described them all as Passengers? Superyachts routinely take a dozen passengers (usually no more because the SOLAS rules become effort after that) but will have a crew, often of a similar size so 20+ would not be uncommon.

Is it the sort of issue where if the agent “pays the right fee” a problem can go away?

 

[Irish Rover]

Has your agent described them all as Passengers? Superyachts routinely take a dozen passengers (usually no more because the SOLAS rules become effort after that) but will have a crew, often of a similar size so 20+ would not be uncommon.

Is it the sort of issue where if the agent “pays the right fee” a problem can go away?

"Fees" are less and less likely to be acceptable in Türkiye. More or less automatic imprisonment for public officials caught and convicted of being on the take. It costs around €50 to change it again when I need to so who's going to risk his job for less than that?
They say they don't distinguish between pax and crew for private non commercial yachts with "amateur" crew.