Boat buying tactics....advice please!

AndyPandy

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OK, we've decided to go for a Bav 30 and we're planning a trip up to Kip for their open day thing over bank hols.

How does the panel think we should handle it?

What sort of "discount" should we expect, if any at all?

Does anyone have any recent experience of this situation and did you get a great deal, or are you expected to pay the price in the pricelist?

Any advice would be greatfully received,

Andy
 

Talulah

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Best to play one manufacturer off against another. Make sure everything is agreed before you even pay a deposit. i.e. commissioning costs, extras etc. Don't pay a deposit on the day. It's like buying a house - your not committed until you exchange contracts. However, once you've exchanged your committed. Hence as with house purchase everything is agreed before contracts are exchanged.
When I've bought new I was initially offered a 2% discount, then a further 3% but ultimately ended up with 15%.
 

allanc

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I wouldn't do that at all.
I'd go to Ancasta at Lymington and look at a very nice 33' Gladiateur with radar, navtex, wind-vane self-steering and a wind generator, all well set out for short handed sailing. And it's a Holman & Pye design. And it's heaps better value than a Bav 30, and more sea worthy. I know the owner well and I'm sure he'd do you a good deal.
I only mention it because Lymington is a lot closer to you than Kip.
 

Talulah

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Actually I agree. I would't buy a new boat at all. The one I bought fell apart after a year. Looked good but too much cost cutting meant everything had no longevity. Buy second hand.
 

Emjaytoo

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We have just bought a new Bav 30.

The dealers attitude is:-

"We're the sole importer & dealer and the price you see is the price you pay. We offer a boat that no other manufacturer can get anywhere near on value for money so if you don't like our product go else where - if you can."

And they are absolutely right! We couldn't find a brand new 31 foot boat that came anywhere near a Bav 30 for value for money and accommodation.

We are delighted with ours and I'm sure the purists will tell you "this boat is better, or that boat is better", but can you buy as much boat for the same money?
 

Richard10002

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Dont forget that you are going to spend thousands of pounds after you have bought it, buying the things that dont come with a new boat.

Why not look for a well kitted out 30 footer between 1 and 5 years old, (including Bav 30's).

If you do want a new one, if you look like you're going to buy on the day, they almost certainly wont give a discount, or as big a discount as they could.

I would go prepared to talk turkey, on the basis that you are going to buy a boat, of one make or another, but definitely wouldnt buy on the day. If you seem serious enough, they should get your details and either chase you as a prospect after the event, or mail you with special offers which arent available at the event.

If they dont, you can always decide to buy at the price offered.

As to theirs being the cheapest... how many people buy 15 year old Moodys rather than brand new benJenbavs for the same money - the argument doesnt wash.
 

Danny Jo

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I once had a next door neighbour who had worked his way up from being a farm-hand at a chicken farm to owning a large truck recycling business. If he wanted a new hi-fi set, he would go into the shop, say I want this and this and this, have it all piled up by the desk, pull his cheque book out, then point across at an telly worth approximately 25% of the nominal value of his purchase and say "And you'll throw that one in to seal the deal". The dealer would demur, and he would start to put his cheque book away again. Worked a treat. Wish I could do it, but then he had plenty of practice.
 

Searush

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Buy Used! They come with all the gear plus loads of extras and have been properly cleared of all Gremlins (usually installed each Friday by fed up workers!)

Ideally buy from some idiot who is upgrading to the latest model for the beech panelling or loose footed sails or bigger fridge. whatever fashionable item it is this year. And do it AFTER he has bought the new model & is getting desperate to sell.
/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 

rwoofer

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After much deliberation and due to the fact that we now intend to keep our boat in the UK rather than take it abroad, we are now downsizing to a smaller new boat. Gives us the added advantage of lower maintenance efforts.

It is a very small manufacturer, so I don't think discounts are going to be in order, but what I'm finding is that the commissioning and delivery charges seem unreasonably large. Does anyone know what dealers do in commissioning and why it is so costly? Putting the rig up, filling up, testing the engine, screw in anything that hasn't been yet - what more do they do?

I'm trying to tackle the delivery charges by getting the boat delivered to Cherbourg, cause crossing the channel seems the most expensive bit!!
 

Twister_Ken

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Assuming you're committed to a Bav 30 (why, for heavens sake?), try asking for a price from Bav dealers in Benelux and France. They might well be cheaper than the Brit, and you'll get a nice delivery cruise for your maiden voyage.

Or, don't buy now, but wait until the season is running down, when orders are not quite so thick on the ground and you might find a bit more price flexibility.

BTW - have you found a berth to keep it on. That's often the most difficult bit of buying a boat.
 

Emjaytoo

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It depends on how you are paying for your boat. Ours is financed via one of the "big three" and we could borrow the money for a new boat over 15 years whereas a used boat could only be financed over 10 years.

The result is our New Bav costs less per month than a used boat and we theoretically have the peace of mind that we shouldn't have to replace anything for the next 5 years or so.

In short we bought new because we couldn't afford to buy used.
 

Richard10002

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[ QUOTE ]
Try to avoid a broker if at all possible .... in fact - make that .. 'at all costs'

[/ QUOTE ]

But then you get the private sale thread regarding how you transfer the money... the seller has the money and the boat, or the buyer has the boat and the money.... etc.

Solicitors I guess?
 

Sailfree

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Got to agree with Twister Ken on this one.

1. Sort out your specification exactly.

2. Get a quote from the dealer. The Dealer must be made aware that a) you are a serious buyer and not a timewaster and b) you have been advised that its cheaper to buy it and take delivery on the continent ask him can his quote be competitive.

I would also get quotes from Baveria dealers on the continent - I am aware of 2 that bought the boat through the Bav dealer in Ouistreham, one with the deal of reduced VAT if French flagged - they sailed with an EEC flag!!

I got a derisery quote on my last Jeanneau and ALL other dealers refused to quote insisting they had an agreement not to compete with my local dealer.

I then got quotes from French dealers (no problems with them they all want your business. While I was looking at the best way to buy the Euros I thought it might be easier to deal with an Irish dealer as my French is pretty bad so phoned one in Ireland and asked whether they would sell me a boat as all others in UK had refused to quote. Got no reply but was contacted by my local dealer offering a serious discount as they obviously realised that I would buy the boat in France unless they reduced their quote. I am sure they dont want British buyers to go abroad as even if they have to seriously discount to a few thay can still make good profit on the rest!

Good Luck

PS You may get a good quote in June/July as order books are down and they are waiting for the Autumn boat shows.
 

Sailfree

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[ QUOTE ]
but what I'm finding is that the commissioning and delivery charges seem unreasonably large. Does anyone know what dealers do in commissioning and why it is so costly? Putting the rig up, filling up, testing the engine, screw in anything that hasn't been yet - what more do they do?

I'm trying to tackle the delivery charges by getting the boat delivered to Cherbourg, cause crossing the channel seems the most expensive bit!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Bit of thread drift but commissioning is as follows:-

Commissioning is charged everywhere its just at different prices.

Boats are delivered by low loader. Delivery Charge is part of overall commissioning charge and is cost of lorry/ferry and cranage. It is obviously cheaper for French/German boats to be delivered to their own ports than to England.

Once delivered the boat is put in a cradle and the handrails put up, the mast errected and the running rigging put on (halyards & sheets). Often all the electrics are fitted by the dealer as the manufacturer produced a "standard" boat and the addition of options like chartplotters and radar and vhf radio, stereo and maybe a TV alters the layout both at the helm position and the chart table.

The boat is normally supplied with many items like steering wheel, internal cushions all removed and packed inside for transit, likewise items like fridges/cookers/microwaves are installed in a "transit" condition and shelves etc need unpacking and installed, the gas cylinder added and the items "Commissioned" - call it made ready for use.

The underside needs antifouling and the instruments need calibrating and all the warrantee forms filled in dated and stamped.

This normally takes about 2 weeks.

Once in the water a dealer from the engine manufacturer will do a pre delivery inspection and ensure the engine is working OK.

Now all this work is going to cost and is dependant on local labour rates and distance from factory to port of delivery so most manufacturers have a standard ex-factory price and the local dealer/distributor works out the cost of the commissioning.

You can either haggle and get it thrown in or negotiate a discount on the boat cost. I prefer to pay for what things cost as its difficult to complain about items that were "gratis"!

Finally the most important part, we can then all write about it and complain about rip off Britain or be sensible and make sure we don't pay the full amount on handover. At handover there is so much to take in and not everything is demonstrated, some faults you won't find until usage. Do take a notebook and take notes and insist on a return visit say 2 weeks later to go over further questions you need answers to.

If then after 2 weeks everything is fine pay the last say 5%. I have always found faults at handover and retained enough money to rectify these faults. On the last boat it took 18months - be warned.

Any reputable dealer will rectify all faults under warantee without any hassle but I like to keep some money back as i believe "Fairness is best achieved from a position of power!"

After my experience of buying 3 new boats in the UK and especially the experience of the last one I think I will buy the next one in France or on the continent as I have real dont think the continent can come near to the crappiness of the UK fit out/commisioning standards - in that I think we rule the world!!
 

rwoofer

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Thanks, very useful information.

Interested in how you manage to keep some money back as most dealers are insistent on full payment before delivery.

New boat is only 29foot as I'm downsizing, and does not have the "systems" of a larger boat, so I would expect it to cost a lot less.

Agree with you on commissioning standards. In some way I would prefer to commission myself cause then I know how everything was installed. What better way to learn about a new boat.
 

Sailfree

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Had a 45 Jeaneau next to us at the Folly a few weeks ago with students from Warsash Nautical College. Boat owned by one of their families. Interestingly they made there own judgement on UK commissioning standards and took delivery of the boat at Seaventures but commissioned it themselves. They also refused to accept the 1st boat delivered due to suspicions of a hull defect - can't quite remember the exact details so unfair to post a guess.

In my case keeping money back was no problem as so much was wrong with the boat I agreed to sail it for the weekend and immediately return it ! Look closely, go for a days acceptance sea trial and hold back money to cover defective items.

Luckily I had enough money held to cover a persistant bow thruster leak that I was not initially aware.

I think I would buy my next boat wherever cheapest but manage the adding of all the goodies myself but I would go to the companies that have a reputation for quality and not necessarily the cheapest. There are good UK companies and they are not vastly dearer in doing work. Shaving commissioning costs is the easiest way for a dealer to increase his profit margin.
 
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