Bluewater boat for under £40k: Moody or Jeanneau?

[Kelpie]

SWMBO has decreed that our current boat is too small for our liveaboard plans. We (two adults, one child) are hoping to take a few years out and aim for an Atlantic circuit, and possibly more if it's all going well.
We're seriously looking at a couple of quite different boats just now: the Moody 37/376, and the Jeanneau Sun Fast 40 (and other boats that are very similar to it, e.g. Dufour 39, various Beneteaus etc).
I know there is not a 'right answer' but it would be interesting to see which one the forum would choose, assuming similar ages, prices, condition and equipment. I'm aware that this could just become yet another aft vs centre cockpit debate.

As I see it the French boat is more voluminous, probably offers better stowage, is faster, might be more fun to sail, and has a much bigger cockpit and deck space.
The Moody offers more privacy, has shallower draft, has a better protected rudder, better engine access, and of course much better headroom in the aft cabin.

So... which one would you pick, and why?

 

[Graham376]

I picked the 376 for reasons you give above plus comfortable motion in lively conditions. Well protected cockpit and in thousands of miles have had no worries about build quality or gear failure..

 

[sailaboutvic]

We live full time on a Dufour 385 for 8 years just two of us and a cat , believe me it wasn't big enough the storage space was limited , two of he three berths was used for our stuff no privacy when your moored stern on to a quay or pontoon and in any seas the cockpit was so big if it wasn't for the table in the cockpit you would be throw all over the place , it was airy inside with lots of windows and fun to sail but as a full time liveaboard with two chirldren and all the gear you going to carry with two chrildren I wouldn't choose any of the Ben,Jen,Dufour under the 42 plus .
We now have a Moody 42 much more room , not so fast , but as liveaboard we in no rush to get any way , and at time we happen to sail at 2 kts if need be , although we have had over 8 kts at times and over long distance are Avg speed is alway been around 5 to 5.5 kts , not much different then our Dufour , it's only in very light wind we find we having to motor more ,
The time we do use quays we have plenty of privacy , the cockpit feels very safe in any seas .
People do live full time on These French boats but mostly they are couples and on big over 40 foots .
Something to concider , when you have a smaller boat and start viewing boats which only need to be a few feet bigger , they look enormous because your comparing them with your smaller boat and as a weekend user with the summer holidays sailing they would do the trick nicely but as a full time liveaboard you soon fill them up
There also another problem , your 40k you have to spend , unless it's going to be a very old boat that's going to need money spend on it , I think your going to have a problem finding one good boat at that price .

 

[Spyro]

Can you get a sunfast 40 for £40k?

 

[Pasarell]

I picked a Moody 44 for 2 adults and 1 child for all the reasons Graham and VicS say above but it was a long way from your budget. Last winter I met a couple who'd just bought a M376 for them and 2 children and were very happy with it but it is their first boat and they only started out in November. Will be interesting to see how they feel at the end of this year

 

[Tranona]

It all revolves around the budget. As you see already the preference is for older centre cockpit boats (even if your budget does not stretch to the size of some). While both types of boat will do the job, with the budget you have you are realistically limited to older British style boats. If your budget is for a ready to go boat for an Atlantic circuit then it is unlikely you will get one of the size you are talking about as conservatively you will likely spend at least £10 on a modest refit/upgrade.

You are much more likely to get something like a Conway or a 376 with the sort of gear you need simply because there are many more of that type of boat around that have been equipped and used for long term cruising. Even then most will need some expenditure.

So to my mind the question is what is the best boat I can get for +/- £40k to do the job - and you are unlikely to find anything newer than late 1980s in that price bracket which rules out most of the French boats.

 

[Kelpie]

So to my mind the question is what is the best boat I can get for +/- £40k to do the job - and you are unlikely to find anything newer than late 1980s in that price bracket which rules out most of the French boats.

I'm curious why you think the French boats are ruled out.
Annoyingly, one contender has just gone under offer- a Sun Fizz advertised at £35k, this came complete with recent standing rigging and a Hydrovane. I know some more money would need to be spent but £35k is a good starting point. Someone appears to have just pipped us to it though. In a similar vein, a Benny 38 advertised at under £25k has also just gone under offer. And there are really quite a lot of these mid 1980s French boats about.

Our plan is to get something that is as ready as possible for the budget, and then when our existing boat is sold that should top up the kitty for upgrades. I should probably do more research on just how much people spend prepping their boats for this kind of stuff- it would be interesting how much is 'nice to have' like generators, watermakers, or parasailors; how much is actually essential, like tender, ground tackle, autopilot/windvane; and how much is the scary big ticket stuff like masts, engines, and structural work.

 

[doug748]

It's over five years now since Yachting Monthly tested the crash test boat to destruction, that was a Sun Fizz 40. They have a reputation as good offshore cruisers, I understand YM paid about 15 grand for it.

It seems to have been in good order, the worst that was said about the overall condition was that it was - dated and rather dowdy below decks. Together with the unfashionable ketch rig. Ginn Fizz 37 is another one to look out for.

 

[Graham376]

I should probably do more research on just how much people spend prepping their boats for this kind of stuff- it would be interesting how much is 'nice to have' like generators, watermakers, or parasailors; how much is actually essential, like tender, ground tackle, autopilot/windvane; and how much is the scary big ticket stuff like masts, engines, and structural work.

To a large extent, it will depend on what you are capable of doing. Just the cockpit tent + gantry can vary between £1k diy and £3.5 - £4k professional. New engine, someone on another thread quoted £2k for professional fitting, whereas diy = £0. We spent around £20k on updates and additions over the past 12 years although most was soon after purchase.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Come to Greece and if you look hard enough you find some thing in your price bracket but be really to spend maybe be another 15 k if not more on mailing it a boat that will do the job you want it to .
Lots of cheap boat on the net , most look good on paper until you view them .
We brought a Moody 42 at a good price in sept 2016 we spend another 18k putting what needed to be put right all the work was done by us I guess if we had to paid to have the work done you could easily add on another 6k to 8K at less the rigging it self would had been another 2.5k

 

[Tranona]

I'm curious why you think the French boats are ruled out.
Annoyingly, one contender has just gone under offer- a Sun Fizz advertised at £35k, this came complete with recent standing rigging and a Hydrovane. I know some more money would need to be spent but £35k is a good starting point. Someone appears to have just pipped us to it though. In a similar vein, a Benny 38 advertised at under £25k has also just gone under offer. And there are really quite a lot of these mid 1980s French boats about.

Our plan is to get something that is as ready as possible for the budget, and then when our existing boat is sold that should top up the kitty for upgrades. I should probably do more research on just how much people spend prepping their boats for this kind of stuff- it would be interesting how much is 'nice to have' like generators, watermakers, or parasailors; how much is actually essential, like tender, ground tackle, autopilot/windvane; and how much is the scary big ticket stuff like masts, engines, and structural work.

Really based on the relatively small numbers sold in the UK until the late 80s and the preference for UK based cruisers for British boats at the time. However asking prices cover a wide range these days, not necessarily reflecting either condition or levels of gear so maybe the choice is greater than I think in that price range.

Which I suppose gets back to the basic point that most cruising boats in that size range are suitable for what you want to do, so don't get too hung up on specific models but try to get the "best" value for your money.

Suspect you will get big variations in answer to your essential kit and refit budget question, partly because there is little agreement on what is essential and people start at different points.

 

[E39mad]

I would look at the Beneteau/Jeanneau range from the mid 1980's until around 1990 - they were sturdily built and still fast in their day - boats such as the First 405 and Sun Legende 41 are great designs. Interiors had lots of solid wood and sea berths. Maybe also look at a Westerly Corsair 36/Sealord 39.

 

[rotrax]

Have a look at a Gilbert Marine built Gibsea. Good internal volume and well built.

Our 96 was anyway..............................

 

[Mr Cassandra]

Quite a few SunMagics about.

 

[Kelpie]

Suspect you will get big variations in answer to your essential kit and refit budget question, partly because there is little agreement on what is essential and people start at different points.

I guess so. Figures often quoted are "tens of thousands" or "20-50% of the purchase price". I admit I'm a bit puzzled as to why seemingly well equipped and maintained coastal cruisers need this level of expenditure to turn them into bluewater boats.
Most of the boats that have piqued my interest appear, in the adverts, to be basically sound and usable as-is. Engines, instruments, interiors, all seem serviceable. I am generally avoiding boats that lack good tankage, and the majority are well equipped with below-decks autopilot, decent ground tackle, etc.

A back-of-envelope exercise suggests that such a boat can be given new standing and running rigging and an upgraded solar/battery capacity for under £4k- assuming mostly DIY work and a bit of shopping around. Add a secondhand windvane for another £1k, and fettle the little bits like LED cabin lights that cost peanuts in the grand scheme of things.

Maybe I'm missing something- I'm sure people don't throw tens of thousands of pounds at their boats for no good reason.

 

[Tranona]

Think you will find what happens is something like..

Up the battery capacity to say 500ah. Better get good batteries so goodbye £600. Then old engine only has 55amp alternator, so some sort of boost required. Then you find all the existing wiring is inadequate (and was probably not very good to start with never mind after 30 odd years' use) Getting enough solar means some form of gantry so makes sense to design it to take the bimini as well.

Then you start on the rigging and find the rigging screws are original and do you want to risk re-using them. Might as well look at the chain plates as one or two look like they have been leaking - who knows where that will lead you.

You get the drift and can construct the same scenario for all the gear on the boat. You are buying a boat that new would cost nearly 10 times what you are paying and everything you need for it is priced in relation to £300k, not £35k. So £10k does not buy you a lot of gear.

Some people just go with what they have and fix it as they go along, others want everything perfect before they go. They are opposite ends of a continuum and you have to fix your position along it. It is fair to say that the ones at the latter end are in danger of never going at all, either because they run out of money, enthusiasm or time or all three!

The reality is that a boat the size you are looking at is a complex beast that consumes time and money and the saying "think of a number and double it" is not far from the truth.

 

[Richard10002]

SWMBO has decreed that our current boat is too small for our liveaboard plans. We (two adults, one child) are hoping to take a few years out and aim for an Atlantic circuit, and possibly more if it's all going well.

I retired in 2004, and bought a Moody 44 in 2006 with the plan of living aboard, and travelling wherever the will took me. Friends would fly out for a bit of a holiday and I would coincide these visits to do legs which would be better with crew, rather than single handed. My now wife also flew out for a few "holidays" as she didnt fancy permanently living aboard.

Anyway... I got as far as Malta in late 2007, and palnned to head for Greece the following year, but found I was seriously ill. So had a year in the UK getting sorted, (and didnt die ), decided I couldnt really afford to be retired, so sailed the boat back to the UK in 2009, and sold it. I now work 3 days a week, and have a narrowboat moored a 10 minute drive from home.

Given that your budget is limited, you could buy a boat, do as much as you can with the money you have, and see how it looks - you don't "have" to do an Atlantic circuit... you could have a lot of fun getting to the Med, perhaps as far as Greece and Turkey... or head South for Madeira and The Canaries. If the boat and the money holds up, you can head off across the Atlantic... any doubts, and you can have some fun on this side of "the pond"

As a matter of interest, the people I sold my boat to spent some money on it, (gantry with solar, good bimini, new nav instruments, Rocna anchor, dont know what else), and sailed it around Scotland for a bit to get used to it. They then got married, headed down to the Canaries, over to the Caribbean for a few years, through the Panama Canal, up to the Gulf of Mexico. In September 2016, (I think), they left the boat in a marina, flew home to a wedding, and the boat sunk in a rare hurricane.

Here's the first part of their blog, which is extremely comprehensive, and possibly excellent reading for someone like you, planning to do something similar: There is a lot of touristy stuff in it, but also a lot of boaty stuff, including the inevitable difficulties including repairs etc.... :

http://www.sigasiga.co.uk/2011/06/07/ardrossan-to-liverpool/

Good Luck...... !!!!

 

[sailaboutvic]

Think you will find what happens is something like..
The reality is that a boat the size you are looking at is a complex beast that consumes time and money and the saying "think of a number and double it" is not far from the truth.

Never a truer words had been spoken .

Regarding doing jobs on the way ,it I had to give any bit of advise it would be , get everything done before you leave .
You can get the parts more readily, easier to shop around and get better prices , any thing you need to be done by someone else the workmanship will be much better where every you live then what you will get in a lot of places in the Med .

 

[Sybarite]

It's over five years now since Yachting Monthly tested the crash test boat to destruction, that was a Sun Fizz 40. They have a reputation as good offshore cruisers, I understand YM paid about 15 grand for it.

It seems to have been in good order, the worst that was said about the overall condition was that it was - dated and rather dowdy below decks. Together with the unfashionable ketch rig. Ginn Fizz 37 is another one to look out for.

I nearly bought one but the deal fell through when the purchaser of my boat dropped out. I test sailed it and it sailed beautifully. I also read a review on this size of boat as a potential liveabord and the Sun Fizz fared well because its hull form was considered a good load carrier, even more than its successor the Sun Légende 41.

It's worth noting that from 1985 onwards teak replaced mahogany and Kevlar was included in the hull construction.

 

[GHA]

Regarding doing jobs on the way ,it I had to give any bit of advise it would be , get everything done before you leave .

Moitessier summed it up in one of his books - something like "A cruising boat is never finished, when the time is right and the winds are fair - raise the anchor and leave"

Ebay and amazon are handy in the UK but after that you'll be fixing your boat on and off always, that's just how it is bluewater, might as well get some practice in