Blue water weather kit

[robmurray]

I'm refitting my boat over time for a big sail. Will fit new ICS Navtex but also have old and faulty ssb receiver which prints out weather faxes via the old Navtex. Should I upgrade to new receiver and pc software or is weather fax now getting obsolete, replaced by Internet / satelite phone? What is my ideal kit?

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[Talbot]

depends where you are going of course, but SSB receiver is invaluable in chatting to fellow cruisers, and receiving weather fax. I am not so convinced abt email by SSB, as I reckon an iridium is actually cheaper and less hassle. Of course if you have the money, a mini-M, or Nera dataphone will provide better connectivity (at a price).

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[snowleopard]

think about upgrading to an ssb transceiver. a lot of communication goes on out there and you'll wish you could join in. sat phone is good for calling home, if you can afford it but radio is the prime medium between boats.

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[roam]

i really like the idea of having an SSB transceiver, but am a tad confused. i visited the icom stand at the boat show. they told me their SSB transceiver is not licensed for use in the UK or even on a UK registered boat. if you are found with it you will be liable for hefty fine (although i appreciate they have to find me first so low risk)

but if i want to stay legal, how do you go about getting a marine SSB transciever?
what manufacturers sell UK compliant sets?
did i just go to the wrong stall?

cheers


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[Spicemariner]

Yes I think you probably did. We have (had) an Icom 710, was brilliant, if you are cruising in Caribbean or Pacific SSB essential, not just for weatherfax, but for receiving voice weather forecasts, communicating with your friends, safety broadcasts and of course talking with Herb, who is the greatest. Our boat was in Grenada and is probably no more, we still don't have info on her. Might be a lot of good 2nd hand gear for sale in Caribbean soon!

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[jerryat]

Hi Roam,

I agree with Spicemariner, though I think you spoke to the wrong person at the right stand! I've used an Icom 706MkII with an ATU4 for the last 8 years and they do conform legally and are fantastic for all the reasons he outlines. Especially Herb, who is, without doubt, the best thing on the HF airwaves. It's a beautifully neat little set but will put you in contact with others over many thousands of miles and is now a totally essential part of our inventory. Their 710 (full marine set) is probably the most used rig on British yachts and is similarly compliant.

Spicemariner, I saw your previous posts re your boat's precarious position in beautiful Grenada, so please accept my very best wishes to you and my hopes that your fears are unfounded.

Cheers

Jerry







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[Anonymous]

>>i visited the icom stand at the boat show. they told me their SSB transceiver is not licensed for use in the UK or even on a UK registered boat. if you are found with it you will be liable for hefty fine>>

I visited the Icom stand today at the Soton BS and, like you, I was told that using the 701 for both marine and ham transmissions is "illegal" (their words). The man on the stand suggested that I was likely to have the boat confiscated as Ofcom are about to get really tough. Then he told me that the RSGB would almost certainly withdraw my licence if I was to use that equipment. He was very unpleasant - so much so that I shall actively avoid Icom products in future. We don't need that sort of attitude from suppliers in this field - totally over the top and not in the least bit helpful. When I asked him for his recommendation he said that I would have to install two seperate radios, which is out of the question for me.

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[BrendanS]

I dont't know if this thread helps
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.ybw.com/cgi-bin/forums/showflat.pl?Cat=&Board=ym&Number=460909&page=26&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=93&part=>http://www.ybw.com/cgi-bin/forums/showflat.pl?Cat=&Board=ym&Number=460909&page=26&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=93&part=</A>, but if not, I'll ask Jon Brooks of Icom to answer once he returns from being at the Sibs event. SSB and radio transceivers is an area that requires specialist knowledge for a variety of reasons.What holds in one country, is not necessarily the same in another

I'm sure they'd like to sell you kit, of whatever source, but if it happens to be illegal in the country in which you ask the question, then they are pretty much obliged to give you the legal answer.

If you want a system as stated, just do a google search, and don't ask suppliers or manufacturers to give you advice outside the law or they could get into some trouble

<hr width=100% size=1>Me transmitte sursum, caledoni

 

[Uisteach]

I'm just getting into this area too, and I've found

www.mesltd.co.uk

and

http://www.yachtcom.co.uk/SailCom/index.html

both useful. Seems that it's the Icom M802 SSB Transceiver that's not UK/Europe type approved.

I've not yet worked out the difference, pros/cons, between a GMDSS Long Range Cert and an Amateur Radio Licence (for blue water cruising). Any views anyone?

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[Anonymous]

>>don't ask suppliers or manufacturers to give you advice outside the law or they could get into some trouble <<

This guy came across as a wannabe Special Constable or Traffic Warden sort of person.

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[Sea Devil]

I keep banging on about how useless the GMDSS Long Range Cert is. As all the others have been saying SSB is wonderful for yachts and one of the most important bits of kit in my opinion. Operating it is pretty straight forward once yo have read the instructions and found out how to contact Herb, David Jones and the SSB nets. It gets you into the world of email at sea and weather fax pix.

It really has no real emergency or search and rescue signifigence any more other than the fact that you may well be able to contact other yachts.

Once you get interested in radio then without a doubt the Amateur Radio Licence is essential if you want to use the Ham nets and email. The licence is really quite relevent and worth having.

Most people with SSB do not have an operators licence (their set is licensed) as the course and test are pretty irrelevent in the content to the real world and you will get the information you need to operate from another boat in an afternoon.

Just my opinion

regards

Michael

<hr width=100% size=1>If you have time visit my web site
www.michaelbriant.com/sailing

 

[roly_voya]

Know nothing about SSB but I noted you are looking at ICS navtext, have you looked at there combined weatherfax/navtext, it used to be standard kit on small comecial vessls and means you don't have to fire up and tune SSB to get forcasts and is a lot more robust than a laptop.

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[JonBrooks]

Dear all

You visited the right stand and got the right info.

The IC-M802 is a US only product and is there for not legal to fit to a UK registared vessel.
It is an export only product for us here.

The M710 was legal but is no longer as it never met R&TTE spec and was not CE marked.
You can fit it if you can find one second hand.
We can no longer sell the M710 as a new radio.

The IC-706 is a ham radio, you must have a ham radio licence to own and use it.
It is NOT legal to use it on the marine bands, it is not aprroved and a marine SSB.

I hope that all helps.
If you have any further questions please do not hesitate to contact me.

Regards

<hr width=100% size=1>Jon Brooks
Marine Dealer Manager
Icom UK Ltd.
01227 741741

 

[Anonymous]

>>The M710 was legal but is no longer as it never met R&TTE spec and was not CE marked. You can fit it if you can find one second hand.
We can no longer sell the M710 as a new radio.<<

Suppose you have an M710 already fitted (i.e. you are legal) and modify it to be able to Tx in the amateur band, is this 'legal'? If not, why not? After all, a licenced amateur operator is licenced to construct his or her own rig so there is no contravention on the amateur side and since the M710 was never approved in the first place, how can the modification make it suddenly 'illegal'.

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[JonBrooks]

ok seems I did not make it all too clear......

The M710 was legal under the old approval route.
After the introduction of the pan European R&TTE route it was not.
The unit was never CE marked, as at the time of its introduction it did not need to be.
If it is fiited it is legal, if you can lay your hands on one 2nd hand you can fit it.
We can no longer sell it as a new radio or in fact bring them into the UK.
You as an end user can still use them for the purpose they were designed for.

The unit is designed and approved for marine SSB use not Ham radio.
You can not have both channels legally in one set PERIOD.
This does not matter if your a Ham or not

You could as a Ham have an M710 on Ham bands only that would be fine and fit with you licence conditions.
In the same way you could take a marine radio and use it only on the 2m ham band.
You could not take your 2m Ham radio and use it legally as a marine VHF.

The only legal way to operate on both is to have 2 sets on board.

Many people use modifed SSB radio's or Ham unit but we, as a responsible company, have to make you aware that you should not do it.

Hope that is all a tad clearer for you all.

Regards

<hr width=100% size=1>Jon Brooks
Marine Dealer Manager
Icom UK Ltd.
01227 741741

 

[Anonymous]

>>You can not have both channels legally in one set PERIOD.<<

Thanks for that, John. Could you please refer me to the Act of Parliament (or relevant regulations) which specifically disallows the provision of both functions inside the same enclosure? It makes no technical sense that I can see and I cannot imagine any standards committee specifically excluding this possibility which is why I am very dubious whether this would stand any great scrutiny.

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[JonBrooks]

Welll it is not an act or parliment its down to the specification and intended use.
Mike Martin (Ofcom) will be able to refer you to the relevent ETSI and R&TTE documents.

Whilst it is technically possible to operate both in one set it is not legal to do so.
It may not make technical sense to you and as a radio engineer I understand that but it is, as I say, down to design and specification for intended use.

I could also fire it back at you and say produce the paper or the licence that allows you to legally use your Ham kit on marine band.
Or allows you to legally operate both bands in an approved radio
You will be hard pressed to produce it.

Regards

I/ we do not make the rule I/we just make the kit to meet them and then offer customers the right advice.

If you choose to ignore that information/advice that is down to you.
The fines are high.




<hr width=100% size=1>Jon Brooks
Marine Dealer Manager
Icom UK Ltd.
01227 741741

 

[Anonymous]

>>Welll it is not an act or parliment its down to the specification and intended use.
Mike Martin (Ofcom) will be able to refer you to the relevent ETSI and R&TTE documents.<<

When people state vehemently that something is illegal, and when they (or their companies) are purporting to be some kind of expert in that subject then the onus is on them to explain WHY it is illegal and be able to cite the relevant standards, laws, regulations, etc. With respect, Jon, since you are writing here as an employee of Icom, I feel that you ought to produce that information for us, in this thread, not refer us on to someone in Ofcom.

>>I could also fire it back at you and say produce the paper or the licence that allows you to legally use your Ham kit on marine band.<<

The Icom 710 is not a 'Ham kit', it is a recognised Marine SSB and, as you say, it is legal to use it as such. All anyone is suggesting is that there is a simple, proven modification that removes the inhibit from transmitting on non-marine frequencies. By so doing, this in no way affects the marine radio network any more than, say, using the Icom 710 to listen to the BBC World service!

>>I/ we do not make the rule I/we just make the kit to meet them and then offer customers the right advice.<<

There is no need to personalise this - which is unfortunately what the man on the Icom stand was doing. This is not about you/me/Icom, it is about the legal position and the only way to resolve this is by reference to the regulations, standards, and laws applicable. Unless and until we know which of these would be infringed your position is dubious.


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[Copious]

Does Icom actually produce a UK legal SSB transceiver if so what is it??

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[Mike_Martin]

ICOM UK are quite right! Using a Maritime radio to transmit outside of the Maritime radio service breaks the terms of the Ship Radio Licence which authorises its use.

Go here http://www.ofcom.org.uk/licensing_numbering/radiocomms/maritime_licensing/of36.pdf

Look at Schedule 2 Radio equipment Conformance Requirements, Section 2.

Hope this helps.
Mike

<hr width=100% size=1>Team Executive,
Maritime & Aeronautical Team, Ofcom