Blue Angel (Canados 70s) Rebuild thread

[BartW]

This is a index of this thread,
for finding picture posts on the subject:
A new updated index can be found in post nr 800, 900, …

Anker camera 730
Autopilot 731
Birthday party 420
Blackwater tank replacement 556, 592
Bladder tanks 791
Chrome modifications 109
Crew Cabin refurb 520, 593
Deck support Acrow props 543
Deck lights 125, 735
Dive tank rails 615, 660,
Electric 230V supply 749, 788
Engines MAN rebuilding 786
Engine room floor lowering 556
Engine room acoustic isolation 162
Flybridge Cover 65
Flybridge furniture 731
Flybridge Hartdtop 680, 749
Galley upgrade 594, 730
Generators 730
Gunwale Railing polishing 573, 591, 812, 834
Gunwale repairing 123, 155, 235, 753, 776, 782, 798,838, 849,863, 899
Interior curtains and carpet 783
Interior Table and Cupboards 155
Interior Led lights 115
Interior teak floor 730
Stabilizers 429, 436, 610, 611, 634, 652
Swim platform hi lo system, 25, 70, 176, 210, 228, 269, 287, 305, 729
Swim platform cleats 324
Swim platform scuba tank rails 593, 615
Tanks level sensors and display 788
Teak renew, recaulking, 894, 899,
Transom steps to swim platform 1, 3, 51, 123, 235, 254, 305
Transom Door to util and engine room 212, 123, 125, 155, 156, 254, 305
Washing machine 867
Water pumps fres water 867
Workbench 188, 254
Yard Marseille 730
Yard Sanary sur mèr 610, 611
Yard Fiumicino 155
Yard Zelenica 782
Yard Santa Maria di Castellabate 798, 867, 899

We have already done a few upgrades and modifications on the boat, and there are some more to come. We'l put a report and some pictures on here, and might asc for advice every now and then.

This winter BA will go back to Rome, a former Canados worker, experienced carpenter and teamboss will do some modifications.We have in mind to :
- Replace a few panels from the inside Gunwale (wood is in bad state)
- Modify the copilot table, so that she can be lowered to make one additional bed/room (thanks to Jfm for the tip
- Make a locker in the side wall of the cockpit (near the saloon door) for storing brooms etc..
- Probably recaulking the teac floor (tbc)
- And a big modication on the stern;
* adding steps from cockpit to bathing platform,
* adding a transom door from platform to utility room

This shows how the ladder is now:

And here are examples how we like to make it:
look also at the transom door,

Canados, but without the garage,

Alalunga, but steps only on Port side

There is room inside, and the hull construction allows to do this (has been checked by the teamboss)

Reason why we want to do this: More easy acces to the platform, especially when carrying scuba gear. But it's important that this modif does not destroy the integrity of the boats design, nor the nice lines. Therefor I like to hear your opinions or advice on this.

Most difficult issue: what to with the door from the cockpit to these steps.
On many modern boats they make a small plastic or SSteel framed plexi door, but these usually look ugly

The best would be a big folding door like the newer Canados, or like on a SQ78, but this is difficult to make, and takes valuable space from the small platform (when divers are on it)
What does the forum think, any advice is welcome

 

[vas]

- And a big modication on the stern;

* adding steps from cockpit to bathing platform,
* adding a transom door from platform to utility room


Canados, but without the garage,

Alalunga, but steps only on Port side

There is room inside, and the hull construction allows to do this (has been checked by the teamboss)

Reason why we want to do this: More easy acces to the platform, especially when carrying scuba gear. But it's important that this modif does not destroy the integrity of the boats design, nor the nice lines. Therefor I like to hear your opinions or advice on this.

Most difficult issue: what to with the door from the cockpit to these steps.
On many modern boats they make a small plastic or SSteel framed plexi door, but these usually look ugly

The best would be a big folding door like the newer Canados, or like on a SQ78, but this is difficult to make, and takes valuable space from the small platform (when divers are on it)
What does the forum think, any advice is welcome

Bart,

Need a few photos of the whole transom but from a greater angle (close to 30-45deg) on both sides to be able to assess the slope of your transom.
Feels like the newer designs you like have a higher slope that enables easier integration of the steps. Also your boat has this two "grooves" effectively splitting it into three planes making things more difficult.

Best would be to carefully mark and cut the size of door you want (obviously wider than your steps now as staircase will be ressessed and equipment wont be outside the transom but within it when moved up and down (well, if they need to, as the door to the utility room will make that shifting and stairclimbing redundant I guess). Keep the offcut strengthen and put an inner skin or mostlikely a strong 20X40 (maybe too much) framework and keep it as the door. Looks like you can spend 500euro on building this door from the offcut and then source the mechanism for opening it as in the one but the last photo for another couple of grand

Would be nice to have heights from platform to aft deck as on the last two photos the one boat has 5 step heights (risers) and the other one 4. You currently have 5.

cheers

V.

PS. if you call these "minor" jobs rebuilt how should I call what I'm planning on mine?

 

[Hurricane]

Just a quick comment.
Do you have a passerelle at the moment or in your new plans?
If not, maybe the new stairs should incorporate one.

Just a comment.
This will be in interesting thread so please keep the information and pics coming.

Mike

 

[newWave]

I am no engineer, so what I propose might be ridiculous, but should preserve the beautifull lines of BA.
In anny case, without anny drawings (or side vieuws) of the stern it is hard to judge what the possibilities are.

Imagine the following sequence :
- The part of the stern, where you want your staircase, being pushed outwards by hydraulic rams.
- The extended part rotates onto itself (might be in several parts instead of 1 big piece)
- The extended part retracts and the stairs are now available as they are incorporated into the back of the extending part.
You might want to incorporate all this in a watertight space to maintain hull integrity.

Obviously this might be expensive, restricted by available space or complete nonsens, but might spark some other ideas.
You can always try with a cardboard mockup.

 

[BartW]

a few extra pictures

@Mike,
yes we do have a passerelle, have been thinking to make a stair also on that side, would be possible, but too much hassle.

@Vassilis,
Yes the shape of the stern is more vertical then the other boats,
but the teamboss made a drawing (unfortunotly no copy)
and the steps will be further / deeper in the transom, similar to the new Canados

@New Wave
another friend proposed a transom door that can be fold down, and so creating a swim ladder
we rather prefer no door in stead of a complex system.
nevertheless, thanks for your input ! will give it another serious thinking

 

[Hurricane]

@Mike,
yes we do have a passerelle, have been thinking to make a stair also on that side, would be possible, but too much hassle.

Agreed, looks like too much to alter round the passerrelle for not that much gain - fine looking existing passerelle as well.

 

[benjenbav]

To keep the aesthetics and prolly the simplest solution: I would look at cutting an inset in the port side of the cockpit and build recessed steps. That will lose you volume below the cockpit, so would only be viable depending on what's there at the moment. This would produce a safe access to the platform but would need to be wide enough for people with dive gear (and fat gits ).

 

[wakeup]

You could opt for a stainless half turn stair case with teak treads that lead up from swim platform and join nicely with existing transom door. No need to modify hull .

 

[Hurricane]

You could opt for a stainless half turn stair case with teak treads that lead up from swim platform and join nicely with existing transom door. No need to modify hull .

And maybe on the starboard side - using the passerelle as a step.
So, extend the paserelle just enough for it to protude and have stainless steps down from the passerelle to the bathing platform.

Maybe a low cost option - your original idea is better - IMO.

 

[jfm]

Bart this looks completely achievable to me. Just cut a chunk out of the transom, and have a GRP step moulding made, like the first newer Canados picture you posted, and GRP it into the hull. Because your transom is a bit vertical, the top step might need to be a bit forward of your transom line, in other words eat up a smallish rectangle of your current aft deck, but that's no big deal. You might then need to fit GRP jambs either side of the opening, to attach the gate to. Also you can make the risers of the steps angled, not vertical, to help with this. The gate can be s/s or you could make a slab of grp for a solid looking gate. It is easy and cheap to mould simple rectangle block components in GRP

Fitting a door like sq78 or Canados is probably too much. It will add lots of complexity (you have to mould rebates etc), and you need a hydraulic motor and pump to operate it, etc. Seems not worth it to me

If I get time later I will play with photoshop and post here

 

[BartW]

You could opt for a stainless half turn stair case with teak treads that lead up from swim platform and join nicely with existing transom door. No need to modify hull .

problem with that is you loose space on the platform,
you can't reach easyly the other side of the platform, behind the stairs,

platform is only 60cm wide,
we might change that in future, add extra hi-lo platform, mmmm

 

[BartW]

Just cut a chunk out of the transom, and have a GRP step moulding made, like the first newer Canados picture you posted, and GRP it into the hull. Because your transom is a bit vertical, the top step might need to be a bit forward of your transom line, in other words eat up a smallish rectangle of your current aft deck, but that's no big deal. You might then need to fit GRP jambs either side of the opening, to attach the gate to. Also you can make the risers of the steps angled, not vertical, to help with this. The gate can be s/s or you could make a slab of grp for a solid looking gate. It is easy and cheap to mould simple rectangle block components in GRP

Fitting a door like sq78 or Canados is probably too much. It will add lots of complexity (you have to mould rebates etc), and you need a hydraulic motor and pump to operate it, etc. Seems not worth it to me

thats exactly how I had it in mind,

we have seen a Rizardi, where the GRP steps moulding are foldable upwards, so that you have a opening to the util. room,
but also this is too complex, water tight rebates, ..
so we better add a simple extra door right in the middle, like in the examples.

 

[wakeup]

problem with that is you loose space on the platform,
you can't reach easyly the other side of the platform, behind the stairs,

platform is only 60cm wide,
we might change that in future, add extra hi-lo platform, mmmm

You could have the bottom half fold up to the top half to keep the platform clear when not in use.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Reason why we want to do this: More easy acces to the platform, especially when carrying scuba gear. But it's important that this modif does not destroy the integrity of the boats design, nor the nice lines. Therefor I like to hear your opinions or advice on this.

Seems like an awful lot of work and expense just to ease access to the bathing platform although obviously it depends how much money you want to throw at it. I had a similar issue on a Princess 435 I owned many years ago which had a vertical ladder to the bathing platform like BA. I just replaced the vertical ladder with a custom 90deg curved staircase made from stainless steel tube and wide teak treads. Sorry don't have a pic as it was a long time ago.
Agree that your proposal would be more ideal but you risk that it doesn't suit the lines of the boat and that the new gelcoat doesn't match the old gelcoat

 

[jfm]

Bart
Reflecting on this a bit, the GRP recessed step work if done really well, including gate a tthe top and all the internal finishing and equipment moving is say €20k. For ~€500 you could have a beautiful teak stepped stainless steel laddrer from the gate down to the platform. But as you said, this eats up too much platform space and you would need a bigger platform. So spend the €19,500 on a retro-fit up-down platform. Makes more sense?

Here are some pics of a retrofitted up/down platform as inspiration

 

[BartW]

Bart
For ~€500 you could have a beautiful teak stepped stainless steel laddrer from the gate down to the platform. But as you said, this eats up too much platform space and you would need a bigger platform. So spend the €19,500 on a retro-fit up-down platform. Makes more sense?

a non steep SS ladder with wide steps and a decent gard rail you won't have for 500e, and would still look as a untidy add-on, imho
therefor I would prefer to do the GRP stairs this winter,
and do the hi lo platform anyway, but next winter !

I'm quoted 17K for the GRPwork + modifs + Teak Steps + SS gardrail modifs + Gunwale capping modifs, and I'm convinced the man is able to do a good job. The idea for the extra door to the Utility room came later, and is not yet included in this price

but I'm alway's willing to change my mind when convinced

 

[vas]

Bart
Reflecting on this a bit, the GRP recessed step work if done really well, including gate a tthe top and all the internal finishing and equipment moving is say €20k. For ~€500 you could have a beautiful teak stepped stainless steel laddrer from the gate down to the platform. But as you said, this eats up too much platform space and you would need a bigger platform. So spend the €19,500 on a retro-fit up-down platform. Makes more sense?

Here are some pics of a retrofitted up/down platform as inspiration

jfm you're too rational

what you're suggesting makes sense moneywise, but bypasses solving an interesting design problem... I really don't like retrofit up-down platforms, how about shaving off the existing platform and spending the 20k on a new full up-down jobbie 1.5m wide? That I'd like!

OTOH, I think you're exaggerating the costs of the carved in staircase. For 10K I'd personally go back and forth to Rome trice and do the job myself

Slanted risers as someone suggested are nice and v.helpful for climbing up, but bugger to walk down (let alone loaded with kit), so I'd not recommend Bart uses too much of the slant in the steps.

Bart any side elevation available? Even a frame off one of the skiing videos would be helpful.

Along the crazy ideas list, how about the transom door when open to be slanted so that it acts as a staircase from the pasarelle?

sorry sketch is not v.good but it takes 3X the time to scan/upload than actually sketching it...


V.

 

[BartW]

Seems like an awful lot of work and expense just to ease access to the bathing platform although obviously it depends how much money you want to throw at it. I had a similar issue on a Princess 435 I owned many years ago which had a vertical ladder to the bathing platform like BA. I just replaced the vertical ladder with a custom 90deg curved staircase made from stainless steel tube and wide teak treads. Sorry don't have a pic as it was a long time ago.
Agree that your proposal would be more ideal but you risk that it doesn't suit the lines of the boat and that the new gelcoat doesn't match the old gelcoat

I believe that a well made GRP stair will increase the comfort on board, and the value of the boat, not that I will ever recover the cost, but it would at least make this C70 more attractive,
on condition that the work is well done of cause.
Keeping the boat’s lines nice, and mating gelcoat color are indeed important issues.

I don't think that I will replace BA the coming years, so instead of looking around for slightly younger boats with just one better feature, I prefer to concentrate on improving BA . Moreover I like this rebuilding proces.

Talking about unnecessary spending, I’ve just payed a 2000 euro invoice for replacing all the brass covered electrical switches and sockets by new with Chrome covers. The Brass lights are next.

Who else‘s mind is all winter on either:
improving the boat, or buying another boat ?

 

[wakeup]

Seems like an awful lot of work and expense just to ease access to the bathing platform although obviously it depends how much money you want to throw at it. I had a similar issue on a Princess 435 I owned many years ago which had a vertical ladder to the bathing platform like BA. I just replaced the vertical ladder with a custom 90deg curved staircase made from stainless steel tube and wide teak treads. Sorry don't have a pic as it was a long time ago.
Agree that your proposal would be more ideal but you risk that it doesn't suit the lines of the boat and that the new gelcoat doesn't match the old gelcoat

It is a while since I've been Lakesailored

 

[BartW]

Along the crazy ideas list, how about the transom door when open to be slanted so that it acts as a staircase from the pasarelle?

sorry sketch is not v.good but it takes 3X the time to scan/upload than actually sketching it...


V.

V, I like your drawings, thanks for that
but before more ideas come incorperating the passerelle
I must say that I don't think this is an option,

For using the passerelle,
we must first shift it out, and only then unfold the outer part (there is a pivot point in the middle)
when it is not completely out + unfold, you may not stand on it.

I don't like the idea that the pas. must be out completely before being able to go on the platform.
there are often occasions that you want go quickly on the platform while the passerelle is not out, fe while mooring.