Niander
New member
er...is it ok to use in the heads?
<hr width=100% size=1>
<hr width=100% size=1>
bleach!
- Thread starter Niander
- Start date
HeadMistress
New member
Noooo. Bleach and/or any cleaning products that contain bleach will eat the rubber parts in your toilet pump and also break down hoses, making 'em more susceptible to odor permeation. (Bleach doesn't do bilge pumps any good either, btw).
Other no-no's are household chemical toilet bowl cleaners, and any cleaning products containing pine oil or petroleum solvents. They're all murderous to toilets pumps and hoses.
<hr width=100% size=1>Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Other no-no's are household chemical toilet bowl cleaners, and any cleaning products containing pine oil or petroleum solvents. They're all murderous to toilets pumps and hoses.
<hr width=100% size=1>Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
robind
New member
So we have to put up with about three seasons of smelly toilets for the sake of a £135 electrical toilet (all singing and dancing from Compas ) and £20 squids worth of pipes? 
))
Rob (Expert in toilet replacement?????)
<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.rejuvanu.com>RejuVanu</A>
))Rob (Expert in toilet replacement?????)
<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.rejuvanu.com>RejuVanu</A>
simonfraser
Well-known member
cleaners with hydrogen peroxide are ok, but heads are cheap, replace them after a few years, or take them apart and renew just the seals of you are into that sort of thing. better than smelly loos.
Simon
<hr width=100% size=1>
Simon
<hr width=100% size=1>
bob26
New member
No doubt those who say no to bleach know what they are talking about.
I have displayed it moderately in the past, as the medics say, with no apparent adverse effect.
I can't remember where I first heard this but what from experience I have found it to be helpful: an important part of avoiding a smelly sea loo is to flush it with fresh water every time you leave the boat.
I just tip a gallon or so of fresh water down it and pump it out again before closing the sea cocks. I generally take fresh drinking water aboard in a can and empty the remnants at the end of play.
Its especially important if you keep your boat in Chichester Harbour (and maybe others) as the seawater there is effectively dilute sewage when you pump it in, regardless of what's in it when you pump out.
By flushing it with fresh - and maybe a little drop of bleach to sterilise - you aren't cultivating a bowl and pipe full of stinking microbes all ready for when you next go to the boat. I have a Lavac btw.
Some loos retain water on the inlet side so this does not work so well. I once had a SL401 which gave off a terrible pong for the first flush whenever you went to the boat (the bad egg smell of hydrogen sulphide which is in fact lethal at quite low concentrations).
I just learned to pump it clean each time I opened up the seacocks on visiting the boat ( a case of DO hold your breath!).
If Tony Blair had a SL401 in Chichester I doubt he would describe himself as "a regular kind of guy".
The bloke who bought that boat from me installed some kind of inline disinfectant device on the inlet pipe I believe.
<hr width=100% size=1>
I have displayed it moderately in the past, as the medics say, with no apparent adverse effect.
I can't remember where I first heard this but what from experience I have found it to be helpful: an important part of avoiding a smelly sea loo is to flush it with fresh water every time you leave the boat.
I just tip a gallon or so of fresh water down it and pump it out again before closing the sea cocks. I generally take fresh drinking water aboard in a can and empty the remnants at the end of play.
Its especially important if you keep your boat in Chichester Harbour (and maybe others) as the seawater there is effectively dilute sewage when you pump it in, regardless of what's in it when you pump out.
By flushing it with fresh - and maybe a little drop of bleach to sterilise - you aren't cultivating a bowl and pipe full of stinking microbes all ready for when you next go to the boat. I have a Lavac btw.
Some loos retain water on the inlet side so this does not work so well. I once had a SL401 which gave off a terrible pong for the first flush whenever you went to the boat (the bad egg smell of hydrogen sulphide which is in fact lethal at quite low concentrations).
I just learned to pump it clean each time I opened up the seacocks on visiting the boat ( a case of DO hold your breath!).
If Tony Blair had a SL401 in Chichester I doubt he would describe himself as "a regular kind of guy".
The bloke who bought that boat from me installed some kind of inline disinfectant device on the inlet pipe I believe.
<hr width=100% size=1>
oldsaltyfish
New member
Crikey I must be lucky, I've been putting regular bleach and off the shelf dunny cleaning products down the head for the past seven years and have had no problems. I cleaned the scale out of the pipes last year and when I leave the boat I put about 50ml of disinfectant in the bowl. I count my blessings and pray for no big disaster.
<hr width=100% size=1>
<hr width=100% size=1>
TheCount
New member
When I leave the boat I flush the loo through with fresh water and then lob a dose of milton sterilizing fluid (apparently you wash babies and things with it!)into the water that drains back from the pipe into the bowl. Pump it back out again and when next visiting the boat all is nice and clean and shiny.
Seems to work.
<hr width=100% size=1>Still, what do I Know??
Seems to work.
<hr width=100% size=1>Still, what do I Know??
HeadMistress
New member
A simple solution to smelly loo
Bleach and caustic chemicals won't cause an immediate catastrophic failure, but will lead to more frequent repairs--replacement of seals, o-rings etc...a toilet that clogs more easily, convincing owners that no toilet paper or even solid waste should go down it. So you may believe that you've been lucky, when in fact you've had problems you didn't associate with the use of harsh chemicals.
There are three possible sources for odor in the head: stagnant sea water trapped in the intake and channel in the rim, odor from the inside of the head discharge hose escaping back into the bowl, and a dirty shower drain and sump...a wet sump is a dark stagnant pond that can smell like a swamp or even a sewer.
The solution to the dirty sump: clean it. Plenty of detergent and water, thoroughly rinsed out.
The solution to odor escaping back into the bowl from the head discharge hose: 1. Replace the joker valve every couple of years...over time waste passing through it stretches the slit till it's no longer a slit any more but just a hole. 2. A cupful of white vinegar down the head once a week. Don't let it stand in the bowl...flush it completely out and all the way through the hose. White vinegar not only prevent sea water calcium carbonate build up, but also prevents odor by lowering the pH inside the hose.
The solution to odor from the intake will work on most boats: just pouring fresh water down the toilet won't work, because nothing poured into the bowl is recirculated through the intake. To be able to flush fresh water through the intake, tee the head sink drain hose into the head intake hose...in fact some builders plumb this way to eliminate a through-hull. When closing up the boat, after you've closed the head intake seacock, fill the sink with clean fresh water...flush the toilet. Because the seacock is closed, the toilet will pull the water out of the sink, rinsing out all the sea water. A second sinkful to which you've added some vinegar will prevent mineral buildup in the intake and channel in the rim. It will be necessary to keep a plug in the sink except when using it...otherwise the toilet will pull air through the sink, preventing the pump from priming, when you flush.
If the layout of your boat or location of the head intake seacock makes this solution impractical, and if it's enough of a problem to justify the effort, you can accomplish the same thing by teeing a length of hose into the head intake hose using a shutoff valve. Stick the end of the hose into a bucket or gallon milk jug full of fresh water and white vinegar to rinse the seawater out.
And btw, a cupful--nor more--of white vinegar down the head once a week when the toilet won't be used again for at least several hours will eliminate the need to clean any mineral buildup out of the head discharge hose again. It'll even dissolve a buildup, but if the buildup is heavy will likely take more time and effort than you want to spend because it will require repeated applications. As with most things on a boat, prevention is easier than cure.
<hr width=100% size=1>Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Bleach and caustic chemicals won't cause an immediate catastrophic failure, but will lead to more frequent repairs--replacement of seals, o-rings etc...a toilet that clogs more easily, convincing owners that no toilet paper or even solid waste should go down it. So you may believe that you've been lucky, when in fact you've had problems you didn't associate with the use of harsh chemicals.
There are three possible sources for odor in the head: stagnant sea water trapped in the intake and channel in the rim, odor from the inside of the head discharge hose escaping back into the bowl, and a dirty shower drain and sump...a wet sump is a dark stagnant pond that can smell like a swamp or even a sewer.
The solution to the dirty sump: clean it. Plenty of detergent and water, thoroughly rinsed out.
The solution to odor escaping back into the bowl from the head discharge hose: 1. Replace the joker valve every couple of years...over time waste passing through it stretches the slit till it's no longer a slit any more but just a hole. 2. A cupful of white vinegar down the head once a week. Don't let it stand in the bowl...flush it completely out and all the way through the hose. White vinegar not only prevent sea water calcium carbonate build up, but also prevents odor by lowering the pH inside the hose.
The solution to odor from the intake will work on most boats: just pouring fresh water down the toilet won't work, because nothing poured into the bowl is recirculated through the intake. To be able to flush fresh water through the intake, tee the head sink drain hose into the head intake hose...in fact some builders plumb this way to eliminate a through-hull. When closing up the boat, after you've closed the head intake seacock, fill the sink with clean fresh water...flush the toilet. Because the seacock is closed, the toilet will pull the water out of the sink, rinsing out all the sea water. A second sinkful to which you've added some vinegar will prevent mineral buildup in the intake and channel in the rim. It will be necessary to keep a plug in the sink except when using it...otherwise the toilet will pull air through the sink, preventing the pump from priming, when you flush.
If the layout of your boat or location of the head intake seacock makes this solution impractical, and if it's enough of a problem to justify the effort, you can accomplish the same thing by teeing a length of hose into the head intake hose using a shutoff valve. Stick the end of the hose into a bucket or gallon milk jug full of fresh water and white vinegar to rinse the seawater out.
And btw, a cupful--nor more--of white vinegar down the head once a week when the toilet won't be used again for at least several hours will eliminate the need to clean any mineral buildup out of the head discharge hose again. It'll even dissolve a buildup, but if the buildup is heavy will likely take more time and effort than you want to spend because it will require repeated applications. As with most things on a boat, prevention is easier than cure.
<hr width=100% size=1>Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Niander
New member
suspected as much
maybe ecover is ok
swmbo...loves the stuff
<hr width=100% size=1>
maybe ecover is ok
swmbo...loves the stuff
<hr width=100% size=1>
andyball
New member
Re: A simple solution to smelly loo
Peggie
Given that stagnant sea water causes smells in a toilet system....any idea why the same water in an engine seawater strainer doesn't smell?, even after the seacock closed & left for some days?.
Just wondered.
Thanks
<hr width=100% size=1>
Peggie
Given that stagnant sea water causes smells in a toilet system....any idea why the same water in an engine seawater strainer doesn't smell?, even after the seacock closed & left for some days?.
Just wondered.
Thanks
<hr width=100% size=1>
HeadMistress
New member
Re: A simple solution to smelly loo
The cooling water stinks just as much, but the exhaust is below the water line so the odor is mixed with engine exhaust odor and isn't noticeable (though some would be if you put your nose next to the exhaust). Plus, there's no outlet in the bilge from which the odor can escape.
That's not true of a toilet...the water comes into an open bowl. In fact, it often doesn't stink very much--only a little from the holes in the channel in the rim of the bowl--until the toilet is flushed the first time.
Otoh, the water from reverse cycle heat/ac pumps exits above the waterline, and CAN be very ripe on startup.
A very good question, btw!
<hr width=100% size=1>Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
The cooling water stinks just as much, but the exhaust is below the water line so the odor is mixed with engine exhaust odor and isn't noticeable (though some would be if you put your nose next to the exhaust). Plus, there's no outlet in the bilge from which the odor can escape.
That's not true of a toilet...the water comes into an open bowl. In fact, it often doesn't stink very much--only a little from the holes in the channel in the rim of the bowl--until the toilet is flushed the first time.
Otoh, the water from reverse cycle heat/ac pumps exits above the waterline, and CAN be very ripe on startup.
A very good question, btw!
<hr width=100% size=1>Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
andyball
New member
Re: A simple solution to smelly loo
Thanks Peggie
I asked because I can smell a little from some low grade hoses near the head (not from the bowl), yet smell nothing from the same type hoses by the engine strainer, or even taking the strainer lid off.
<hr width=100% size=1>
Thanks Peggie
I asked because I can smell a little from some low grade hoses near the head (not from the bowl), yet smell nothing from the same type hoses by the engine strainer, or even taking the strainer lid off.
<hr width=100% size=1>
DanTribe
Well-known member
Lots of excellent advice here, but can I add my two pennyworth?
I could not get rid of the pond water smell despite repeated treating, copious flushing and replacing some pipework. Finally it dawned that the only bit not thoroughly cleaned was the pipe between the deck fillers and the tanks. They were rank!
Worth checking at least.
Dan
<hr width=100% size=1>
I could not get rid of the pond water smell despite repeated treating, copious flushing and replacing some pipework. Finally it dawned that the only bit not thoroughly cleaned was the pipe between the deck fillers and the tanks. They were rank!
Worth checking at least.
Dan
<hr width=100% size=1>
[2068]
...
Re: A simple solution to smelly loo
In the Solent, there is a particularly smelly sulphur producing bug that lives in the inlet hose, and just doesn't go away unless you do something about it (rotten eggs smell is there on the first flush of the day, disappears on subsequent flushes, and returns the next day.)
Ewwwwwww.
In particular, it is picked up from flushing above shallow muddy seabeds, which is another excellent reason for not flushing in the harbour!
What I have found works is the following voodoo:
- Close the inlet seacock
- Unhook the inlet hose at the toilet end
- Pour "Milton" baby sterilser into the hose until the hose fills up
- Reattach the hose and leave for 30 mins
- Open and close the seacock several times for a minute or so
- Pump through, and repeat
So far, doing this once per season has kept it zonked.
dave.
<hr width=100% size=1>
In the Solent, there is a particularly smelly sulphur producing bug that lives in the inlet hose, and just doesn't go away unless you do something about it (rotten eggs smell is there on the first flush of the day, disappears on subsequent flushes, and returns the next day.)
Ewwwwwww.
In particular, it is picked up from flushing above shallow muddy seabeds, which is another excellent reason for not flushing in the harbour!
What I have found works is the following voodoo:
- Close the inlet seacock
- Unhook the inlet hose at the toilet end
- Pour "Milton" baby sterilser into the hose until the hose fills up
- Reattach the hose and leave for 30 mins
- Open and close the seacock several times for a minute or so
- Pump through, and repeat
So far, doing this once per season has kept it zonked.
dave.
<hr width=100% size=1>
HeadMistress
New member
Re: A simple solution to smelly loo
Some detergent and water, followed by vinegar will do the same thing without the negative impact of chlorine.
You raise another interesting point though...flushing in shallow muddy or sandy water is likely to bring in grit that can damage the rubber bits and score the inside of the pump cylinder. I once had to take my own toilet apart to clean the dirt out of it after spending a weekend nosed up on a sandy beach...the pump wouldn't prime till I did. So it would be best to keep the seacock closed and pour water from the sink into the head to flush while in shallow water.
<hr width=100% size=1>Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Some detergent and water, followed by vinegar will do the same thing without the negative impact of chlorine.
You raise another interesting point though...flushing in shallow muddy or sandy water is likely to bring in grit that can damage the rubber bits and score the inside of the pump cylinder. I once had to take my own toilet apart to clean the dirt out of it after spending a weekend nosed up on a sandy beach...the pump wouldn't prime till I did. So it would be best to keep the seacock closed and pour water from the sink into the head to flush while in shallow water.
<hr width=100% size=1>Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Johnnygil
New member
Re: A simple solution to smelly loo
Well I'm glad that clears it up, crystal clear now
Doh!!!!
Sorry didnt understand a word
<hr width=100% size=1>
Well I'm glad that clears it up, crystal clear now
Doh!!!!
Sorry didnt understand a word
<hr width=100% size=1>
HeadMistress
New member
Re: A simple solution to smelly loo
What part didn't you understand?
<hr width=100% size=1>Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
What part didn't you understand?
<hr width=100% size=1>Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
jeanne
Member
White Vinegar
That was a very interesting post, but what is white vinegar? Is it the stuff I put on fish'nchips, or wine vinegar, or what? I suppose my next question should be 'what is it called in Spanish', but that seems to be asking too much.
<hr width=100% size=1>
That was a very interesting post, but what is white vinegar? Is it the stuff I put on fish'nchips, or wine vinegar, or what? I suppose my next question should be 'what is it called in Spanish', but that seems to be asking too much.
<hr width=100% size=1>
andyball
New member
Re: White Vinegar
the clear stuff...spirit vinegar,distilled vinegar. Dunno the spanish for it.
<hr width=100% size=1>
the clear stuff...spirit vinegar,distilled vinegar. Dunno the spanish for it.
<hr width=100% size=1>
HeadMistress
New member
Re: White Vinegar
White vinegar is colorless (hence the name)--clear as water...and used as a cleaning product more than in cooking. You should be able to find it in any large food market on the same shelf as the malt vinegar, wine vinegar, cider vinegar etc...the label should say "distilled white vinegar" (or your language equivilant).
White vinegar is preferable for cleaning applications because it's more acidic than other vinegars...and because it's not diluted or altered with flavoring.
I suspect you've seen it without it registering in your mind because it's not what you ordinarily look for. However, it's very common and should not be hard to find.
<hr width=100% size=1>Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
White vinegar is colorless (hence the name)--clear as water...and used as a cleaning product more than in cooking. You should be able to find it in any large food market on the same shelf as the malt vinegar, wine vinegar, cider vinegar etc...the label should say "distilled white vinegar" (or your language equivilant).
White vinegar is preferable for cleaning applications because it's more acidic than other vinegars...and because it's not diluted or altered with flavoring.
I suspect you've seen it without it registering in your mind because it's not what you ordinarily look for. However, it's very common and should not be hard to find.
<hr width=100% size=1>Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
