Bit of an Odd ball this one

[TheBoatman]

Basic facts (as I see them)!
My YC is a recognised RYA teaching establishment.
I am a RYA powerboat instructor to safety boat level, so I know what the RYA require of instructors.
I am an active PB instructor.
I hold a DTI Boatmasters licence Cat 2 with COP based at Ramsgate. Which means that I can take to sea up to 12 paying passengers not more than 60 nm from Ramsgate.
The vessel must not be over 24 mtrs in length or 80 GRT.
I also hold YM offshore (sail & power) commercial licence, which extends the distance out to 200nm.
My YC is within the 60 nm range of Ramsgate.
I admit that I’m confused as to what I’m actually able to do with these two licences, but I figure that if I stay within 60 nm, the vessel is less than 80 GRT and don’t carry more than 12 passengers I’ll be OK.

The problem is?

My club is considering getting a training/committee boat of 10.6 mtrs (35 feet) and whilst I can use the boat on any club activities, I can drive it, I can charge passengers to use it but I cannot actually train people on how to use it according to the RYA, because they say that I must be a RYA advanced PB instructor to do this.

Is this a fair assumption on behalf of the RYA?

It does seem a bit silly that whilst I can take people to sea in such a boat, I can’t actually teach them on how to operate it?
Discuss?
Peter.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Have you tried discussing this with the RYA? My experience is that they are not obstructive and want to help. eg When I wanted to teach shorebased a few years ago but hadn't got the official RYA shorebased teaching module, a quick phone call was all that was required. They knew me, recognised my background, and gave me instant recognition as a shorebased instructor.

 

[snowleopard]

there's a world of difference between knowing a subject and being able to teach it. having run a training business for several years i can tell you that even an expert pracititioner can be a useless instructor.

 

[Cornishman]

IMHO the RYA are absolutely right. It is very difficult to lay down a set of regulations which apply to everyone - there is always going to be someone who wants to 'bend' them. What is your objection to becoming an advanced PB instructor anyway? There's nothing like having another qualification in your locker

 

[claymore]

The RYA is very clear in its syllabi and structures. In a world ever threatened by Litigation it needs to be. I know it seems a bit of a bummer when you have to do a course covering something in which you already feel qualified but there is a certainty that you'll learn something new, so I'd recommend that you go through the hoops. That way should the unthinkable ever happen, at least you hold the valid qualification.

 

[TheBoatman]

John/Mike
You’re both right of course and I will probably end up taking my advanced ticket. I'm not looking to bend any rules it's just that I'm a little peeved that whilst the MCA consider me competent to drive (be in charge or skipper) such boats complete with fare paying passengers and the RYA consider that I'm competent to be a PB instructor that there seems to be an overlap in experience or qualifications here.
If I elect to go for the advanced ticket the cost in time and money will be down to me and at the moment I don’t charge my YC for my services. Over the last 10 years any YC instructing I have done has been FOC because I want to pass on my knowledge to other members. BTW during that time I have also instructed RNLI, HMCG and local port authority personnel.
If we look at what was in place before the RYA changed the rules, as a PB instructor I could instruct anyone on any size of boat, PB2 didn’t have a size limitation!
Under the new rules the RYA have introduced a size limit of 9+ mtrs and that boat has to complete a 4-hour coastal passage and be a “planning” vessel. My question is why are the RYA so tied up in planning vessels and ribs. If you look at the new instructor manuals for PB courses they are almost entirely set up for ribs, it’s as if the RYA don’t recognise power boats that don’t plane? Apart from a rib when was the last time you came across a 9+ mtr powerboat that had a kill-cord in the wheelhouse? Apparently, I as an instructor have to explain the use of such a piece of equipment!
As far as I am concerned it looks like the South coast based RYA is pandering to the local, Solent conditions i.e. everyone uses a rib therefore lets base our PB syllabus on ribs?
I have many instructor friends and they are all saying the same thing, that the latest RYA PB courses are far to loaded in favour of ribs and take no account of large displacement powerboats.

Peter.

 

[BrendanS]

Because Powerboat qualifications are aimed at small fast craft, and most people with larger or non planing craft will probably tend towards day and coastal skipper motor cruising, or yachtmaster (power) qualifications as more appropriate?

 

[claymore]

Risk Assessments Dear Boy

If you have a "Planning Vessel" there's so much more with which to enrich the Risk Assessment.

Back in the late 70' with the NSSA and RYA we used to have "Escort" boats - I think they were responsible for an awful lot of poor car design, but we had to show competence in both which used to turn into a bit of a laugh when running assessments as people were either used to driving ribs in which case they'd make a complete bugger of picking up a mooring in a strong tide on the "Escort" which tended to be things like Cheverton Champs - or they'd get halfway over the jetty in the rib as they didn't realise that without power there is very little way carried.
I used to be a Coach Examiner, Powerboat Instructor and a Racing Coach, but for one reason or another - much of it to do with keeping up with the myriad of bits of paper - I've let it all lapse now.

 

[powerskipper]

Under the Old rules. you could pass a PB2 and then helm anything up to 24m long, it did not matter if it had one or two engines, or the fact that you did your course on a 3 mm rib, I truly believe this new layout is better .