Biscay in mid-September

nickrj

nickrj

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Has anyone got any thoughts on the Bay of Biscay during the middle of September? I know optimal dates are June/July, but has anyone got experience or knowledge of what to expect slightly later? I have heard reports from 'cross in mid summer or mid winter but not in autumn or spring' to 'biscay is fine from may till october' ...

Also, I am in Amsterdam, and I would like to take a wide berth (offshore) across the Bay. Is it sensible to make my way back to Brest to begin, or is it more intelligent to go back across the Channel, along the English coast to Falmouth, or as suggested by a friend to even go as far West as the Isles of Scilly before starting?

Thanks, n.
 
There's a good argument for heading as far West as 10 degrees, and then turning due South....

On several occasions, we have made it a good excuse to visit somewhere like Kinsale, (very pretty), before heading for Finisterre.

Last year, in August, we set off from Falmouth and got lucky. A week earlier or later, and we would have been caught up in some serious gales of Coruna and Finisterre.

I am guessing that September will likely be fine, as long as you pick a decent weather window - which applies at any time.

Make sure your insurance covers you for the trip.
 
I am planning to go across as soon as the first decent forecast after the 8th sept (I can't escape earlier unfortunately) comes along, leaving from Scilly. Brest would be good but from there you will be running adjacent to the shipping lanes between the ushant TSS and Finisterre TSS and to make westing will have to get across this, no big deal really but can put you a bit on edge.

Last year there were precious few decent weather windows after mid September for the whole winter, but in previous years there has always been plenty of opportunity to get across, patience is the key while waiting for that window of opportunity.

Maybe see you on the way, more likely in Spain or Portugal.
 
Hi Fellow Scillonian Person /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
Pete, we crossed the first week in October, but admit we were waiting many weeks for a window, we were, at the time, out of Falmouth, we thought of leaving from Scilly too, but in the end got fed up of waiting for a suitable gap to go outside Ushant, make westing etc. We had a 24 hour or so gap so beggered off quickly to Cameret (Brest is the pits) via Chanel du four. Waited in Cameret for 2 weeks, our insurance was only good for biscay to Nov 1 so we actually did think we would end up wintering in Cameret, lovely place, but not for a winter !. We eventually got, believe it or not, a SE 6, superb, we flew across, only about 2 mtr swell, but on the beam, rolled a bit... odd 3 mtr but no worries. 3 days and 4 hours to Coruna. We get ssb weather fax every day on passage too, personally I think its a must.

SO, WE had no problems, however................. Best practice would dictate westing well ouside Ushant to give you the deep water option to weather any crap that comes your way. If you DO west it, it is worth considering Bayona (Spain) south of Vigo as an optimum destination as you dont have the hassle of rounding Finisterre later. If you plan to round finisterre later, then coruna is a great place and we can meet up.

At that time of year the main fishing fleets from SPain are very active in Biscay, we came across at least 50 PAIRS of trawlers, but they were no problem, very professional, they knew we couldnt go around them so slightly altered course to pass us on both sides and waved, great stuff. The little, single fishing boats can be a pain in the ass though, had one call me and ask if I could turn EAST.. you can imagine my polite reply....... lol

If you get caught out, then usually its a souwester, never run before it if you can possibly avoid it, you will end up deeper in the bay and deeper in the mire. Heave to if possible. The westing gives you many more options. Get the ssb actual synopsis, if you see something coming, then motor west at flank speed for as long as possible.
Most people only get caught out in Biscay due to time constraints on their or their crews part. the flexibility to WAIT makes the crossing normally a doddle.
Be safe, Wiat for the right time even if it takes a month, dont be impatient ever. you will have a great trip and hope to see you in LC.
Joe n Jayne n Molly
 
I have been across a couple of times in October without problem but with a good weather forecast.

I have waited in Falmouth and in the Scillies for weather before setting sail. I can see no reason why you shouldn't wait in Cherbourg or possibly hanging off a buoy in Alderney,

Definitely do not bother with Brest. I always go outside Ushant skirting the edge of the southbound traffic lane then straight across heading for Finnesterre but going into Bayonne. Corouna is then a port of refuge if a strong westerly kicks in towards the end of the Voyage.

The passage is around 5 days and nights and there is no trouble getting a 5 day forecast for each anticipated position each day ahead from Buoyweather who I have always found to be excellent... If I get my new boat I shall be doing it in December - if the weather is OK!!

Michael
 
I second the option of waiting in Falmouth (or west of there) for a window and then go way out west before going south. That avoids the traffic and confused seas in mid Biscay. Then I can very strongly recommend Bayona as destination; lovely town, great moorings at the yacht club and you avoid most of the Finisterre problems.

If you do not have ssb, you can get a special five day Biscay forecast from the Met office. You have to pay for it and you will find it in the "paid services" section of their website. I found it worth the money and very accurate on my latest crossing.
 
Thank you all for your replies.

I am tending towards the stay in Alderney route, simply because going all the way back to Falmouth is quite a distance. I know starting that far west makes more sense, but maybe I will just spend way too much time getting there?

As for insurance, I only have 3rd party, and I fear I will be the one coming worst off in a collision anyway. They cover me for 200nm offshore.

I am in Berlin now, and travel back to the boat on Friday, at which point I will fit the autohelm, make various repairs and hopefully head back south through the north sea & channel (I came up through the canals from Vlissingen).

n.
 
Hi Lady Jessie
Re met office forecasts, in a late season Biscay crossing I strongly advise that this option is not used. Reasons being that the later the season the less accurate the longer range forecasts are due to the general instability in the north atlantic.
SSB is definitely a better option, you only need a cheapo receiver and pc, most boats now have a laptop. We have a full SSB transceive setup and another rx only, however, all thats needed is something like a Sangean ATS909 to give you full coverage on the crossing as far as weather fax synoptics go, you dont need and fancy antennas for that either as it comes with a reasonably effective reel antenna that can be pulled up a flag halyard or similar. However, that is my personal choice, each to their own, but far safer IMHO.
Joe
 
Another vote for MichaelIE and Lady Jessies plan - out to 10 degrees W and 1st stop Bayonne .
The earliest I have crossed is March and the latest December.

However June is something else! This during a summer gale:
Ch 16
"This is VLCC XXX Will the small yacht in survival mode in position xxxN xxxW please make contact"
" Someone out there needs help - there is nothing we can do, but note the position" I said to one of the crew, which he did.
We had no main up, a scrap of furled genny (ugh...) and a Bavaria in an F8 / 9.....
12 hrs later , when it had all cooled down we checked the log.
It was us he was calling - we hadn't realized.

Go for the 5 day forecast and go far out, the Biscay is very unpredictable but you are safer further out than in.

good luck
 
Our of curiosity, why first stop Bayonne, and not Corouna? Bayonne seems like a step backwards if you are heading further south. I am trying to get to the Canaries.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Re met office forecasts, in a late season Biscay crossing I strongly advise that this option is not used. Reasons being that the later the season the less accurate the longer range forecasts are due to the general instability in the north atlantic.

[/ QUOTE ]
That might be so, but is that not a rather academic point? Once you have established that there seems to be a weather window; you leave and then you are kind of committed. There are really very few options should the forecast prove incorrect and you just have to deal with the weather you meet. As noted above, you don't have the option of going inshore in the Biscay as that is much more dangerous than staying out in the Atlantic and should be avoided at all cost. My only variation on my passageplan for Bayona would be to head for La Coruna if I meet a southwesterly, then wait that out before you round Finisterre. Note meet, not just forecasted.
I am not sure that you really need an SSB in the Biscay. Once I have left harbour, I only listen to the BBC shipping forecast and France Meteo. Both can be picked up on a dirt cheap normal FM/MW/LW radio and they have served me very well.
 
Hi
I must disagree Sir, I personally believe an ssb is invaluable, however, it all depends on ones ability to read and interpret synoptic charts. The beauty of these is not in forecasting, it is in the fact that you have a view of what is actually happening at the time. This allows you to decide for yourself the best plan of action, I submit that you should never MEET anything, you know it is coming, you adapt, overcome etc as the US army says lol....
Nowadays someone coined the phrase "weather routing", but we have done that for years, as in, adapting ones plan and course to make the most of what you have. There are MANY options should the foreacst prove incorrect, thats the whole point of having the info. in the first place, and, to have it updated twice a day.
too many sailors IMHO have no real undertanding of weather, it is a basic necessity me thinks. one does not just go blindly on and adapt to things as they occur, one knows what is happening and what is coming. That really the point me thinks.
The technology is there, so make the most of it.
 
I think I would agree with your comments if it related to an ocean crossing. Not so sure that I would go to this level of bother for a Biscay crossing where you are only a couple of days max out from a safe harbour. You are unnecessarily setting the bar too high and might cause undue concern for sailors without ocean crossing experience. I think you can safely cross the Biscay without SSB and/or the ability to read synoptic charts. Listening to the shipping forecast gives you plenty of information for this route, if your basic seamanship knowledge is sound.
 
On an ocean passage you will usually be far safer than on a biscay crossing unless you really have gone west. Again, we are talking late season, not ideal times. the wait for a window can taKe you later and later. The shipping forecasts are too generalised for my taste. The weather at this time of year is unpredictable as said before. I dont consider this setting the bar too high at all, and I also feel you may be underestimating the potential problems at this time of year. Some of the most violent storms recorded in Biscay are from the middle of August to the end of September, , the so called equinoxal gales that can occur at either side of the autumn equinox and the seas generated by them can be extremely rough (the data from world cruising routes, I will quote to you from Admiralty ocean passages if you like...... ??????
The violence of these occurances is often not adequately forecast either. So, no problems, you can listen to your tranny and hope for the best, or get up to date info en route and actually see potential problems building.
The other factor is a south bound passage is almost always more problematic than a northbound due to the SW nature of the majority of bad weather.
Basic seamanship as you call it also includes prior research and preparation along with the ability to get the best info one can use. So, again, I cannot agree with you Sir.

Joe /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
 
"only a couple of days max out from a safe harbour. "


our first ocean crossing was the bay of biscay .we left cardiff with a good weather window and all seemed favourable,we got caught up in the bristol channel/ lundy tides as we expected but we ended up motoring down past the scillies,and used a bit more fuel than we had reckoned on.we carried as much fuel on the boat as we dared,but there was a limit. once past the scillies we were ok and able to sail,not quite the way we wanted but we wern't using fuel,we were tacking more towards santadar then back towards corrunna and achieving reasonable distances ,for us anyway. by day 3 we were about halfway when the wind dropped and we were becalmed effectivly for 3 days we covered less than 30 miles a day,i took the decision not to use the fuel we had as we might need it later,we did manage to get a couple of weather reports while out there but my biggest fear was that all may change as we had had a good 5 day forecast/weather window when we left but thathad run out. and we still had a way to go,i managed to download 1 synoptic chart 72 hrs ahead which indicated to me that all would stay calm,which it did and all was well, we managed to motorsail abit and got into corrunna with no real problems.our total trip lenght was 9 days.we set off with some concerns as it was our first long trip ,and i would have to say it was great in the middle of biscay except not knowing what the weather was likely to be in the future, that fax allayed some of my fears ,and brought the anxiety level down by 90%.
we did not manage to pick up any radio weather transmissions and the navtex which had worked perfectly for the previous 4 years had decided not to work..
i would say that no sea crossing should be taken without undue concern and always be prepared for a longer crossing than you planned.
as far as i am concerned i would not be without the ability to read synoptic charts,i might not understand all they say but i can get the gist of it.
 
I have just been reading this thread with interest as we are planning to cross Biscay next year. After doing a bit of research on the net I too discovered that to go out past 10 degree point is best, but I had read that the best and safest times to go were between June and July, now you are saying that you hit a bad storm in June! Can anyone say when the best month is for crossing as my daughter suffers from really bad sea sickness and she is dreading it before we even set off, and sending her on ahead of us by air is not an option.
 
For those that are interested in the September weather on the SW England to Canaries route, I have prepared a simple csv file which shows the wind directions and speed at 3 hourly intervals for last September, taken from the US monthly analysis Gribs. I've chosen 6 positions which are roughly
Mid Falmouth - Ushant
Mid Ushant - Finisterre
Finisterre
Well into Biscay
Off west coast of Portugal
Mid Portugal - Canaries
(The csv file shows the precise Lat/Lons used)
Just download the file and open it in Excel or any other spreadsheet.
Download from (right click and choose Save As)
http://www.ballgate.com/download/csvsep06.csv

Hope someone finds it useful
 
Nomad,
If you are very concerned about the crossing then remember that it is only 300 miles from France to the north coast of Spain - say Camaret to Vivero. If you are prepared to motor or motor/sail that's only 2.5 days at 5 knots or about 2 days at 6 knots. Just wait for a good and reliable 4 day forecast and go for it.
 
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