Biscay Crossing

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dnickj

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The SWMBO and I are planning to leaving the UK next year heading for the med. We have limited sailing experience having only purchased the boat last year (Jeanneau 40), but despite the crap weather clocked up about 1200 sailing miles with a couple of cross channel trips and a cruise to the West Country. We are both Yachtmaster theory trained and day skipper practical.

The question we are pondering is crossing the Biscay. A daunting prospect for the first time. We are considering either coast hopping, but would rather go direct from say Falmouth to Northern Spain. At what point does anyone consider they have enough experience to attempt a crossing like this? Are we running before we can walk?
 
It might be a good idea to have one or two more with some experience aboard, mainly for watchkeeping, until you have a better notion of you and your mates stamina at sea, possibly in bumpy conditions. But don,t take crew who have limited time, this can be worse than no crew, if it leads to taking a chance with a weather window, for example. It sounds like you have approached sailing responsibly and have some valuable experience, including I assume at night in traffic.
Within reason, if you feel up to it, go for it. My first cruise was at 27 in 1972, on a Westerly 25, compass, trailing log, echo sounder, absolutely NOTHING else! except, a 3yr old daughter and a wife, we spent 2yrs getting to the Med and back. My Dad thought I was totally insane. The good thing about being young is you are immortal, of course!
 
I think I'd err on the side of caution. First, you need to be pretty much up to Yachtmaster ability (whether or not you've actually taken the test), with plenty of night and some heavy-weather experience. Secondly, the more experience you have under your belt, the more likely you are to enjoy this passage. Of course some people just hop out and do it, but also there are too many people who have been deterred from long-term cruising by taking it on too soon, specially with a weak skipper.

If you have doubts, it might be a good idea to cross the first time crewing for someone more experienced. Or at least have a really experienced crewmember aboard.

If you decide to go for it, its a straight choice between the direct jump, or stopping on the north-west coast of France, often at Cameret. The latter means your passage across Biscay will be 3 days, short enough for a reliable weather window. The downside is that the north-west corner of France is one of the trickiest places in the world to navigate through. I've been both ways.

Don't consider coast-hopping right round France and Spain. It takes forever.
 
I'm bound for Portugal this summer,it will be my 5th crossing of Biscay in just over 11 years. always singlehanded in my 32 foot boat. My opinion for what it's worth is, once you are clear of the Channel approaches and the busy shipping lanes the weather is the main problem you may have to contend with. A good 5 day forecast obtained in Falmouth will be something to look for and provided your boat is well found,as I'm sure it is, you will make the crossing and wonder what all the fuss was about. Like all passages you have to approach it sensibly with the gear checked and the crew rested before sailing, but you have enough seamiles to know that. The last time I went I got a hammering crossing Lyme Bay and was glad to get into Brixham but later spent 2 days on the diesel during the Biscay crossing in a dead calm!! The incidence of Biscay gales drops away markedly after April as you know, so have a good trip and enjoy the Spanish sunshine.
 
Hi Nick

If you posting on here it is a good sign of common sense (Not weakness) if you are unsure about the crossing ask yourselves this:

Are you and the wife up for 5 days of big seas, possibility of storm force winds, little sleep and a lot’s of pair trawlers to dodge?

If like most of us you are not superheroes, then I would recommend going around the inside, it’s a nice trip and some of the scenery is amazing.

Some will tell you that Biscay is easy and they motored across (Nice when it happens) I have monitored the weather in Biscay intermittently for two years (Two Crossings) and seen the weather change mid summer, violently without warning.

We got first hand experience of how nasty it gets in “The Biscay” so we did the in-shore route this year and arrived in Spain more refreshed and with less damage and a lot dryer than the direct route.

Good luck, Darren

P.S. If you do go across then watch the La Coruna / Cape Finisterre area as F8 eastlieys blew for most of last summer. And this brings massive seas
 
Firstly, you have to consider when to cross to ensure good weather conditions; I would recommend that you do this in the June-mid August timeframe. Given your experience, I would not consider anything other than doing a straight Biscay crossing. It is IMHO the easiest, given good weather fcsts. The alternative of coast hopping with possible difficult harbour approaches is a nightmare scenario. You have to remember that most of the Biscay coast is lee shore with very sharp rocks and very, very few shelters. If the weather unexpectidly turns bad, that is the wrong place to be. Stay away and keep out into the safe ocean.

I have done the crossing from Falmouth to Bayona in Spain many times and it is most of the time a very enjoyable crossing. You hang out in Falmouth and check the five day Biscay forecast. The Met office produces this. It is surprisingly accurate. If you get a favourable five day forecast; off you go! You should be prepared to get a beating somewhere along this route as the three to five day window is not always very accurate, but you will very seldom get a big surprise. I have personally spent much more time motoring in the Biscay than battling gales.

Then the approach point is a matter of choice. A lot of cruisers head for La Coruna as that is the shortest route. It is a nice place, but I favour Bayona around the point of Cape Finisterre because I think it is an even nicer town and you are already around the Cape and can more easily continue southwards, even if there are more gales moving into the Biscay.

In summary, with good planning and picking your weather window; a Biscay crossing can be wonderful. I know as I have had several and only very few bad ones.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I'm bound for Portugal this summer,it will be my 5th crossing of Biscay in just over 11 years. always singlehanded in my 32 foot boat. My opinion for what it's worth is, once you are clear of the Channel approaches and the busy shipping lanes the weather is the main problem you may have to contend with. A good 5 day forecast obtained in Falmouth will be something to look for and provided your boat is well found,as I'm sure it is, you will make the crossing and wonder what all the fuss was about. Like all passages you have to approach it sensibly with the gear checked and the crew rested before sailing, but you have enough seamiles to know that. The last time I went I got a hammering crossing Lyme Bay and was glad to get into Brixham but later spent 2 days on the diesel during the Biscay crossing in a dead calm!! The incidence of Biscay gales drops away markedly after April as you know, so have a good trip and enjoy the Spanish sunshine.

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Pity you are not accepting PMs? (Nic 32 MkX1),Bill.
 
I must admit we always crew up for the job, year before last myself and three friends, all of with 30yrs+ of experience of ocean passages. plus No.1 son and friend to provide the muscle. Makes for easy watch changes and lets you get 8 hrs sleep

We had more problems with the fishing boats than the weather, they seem to enjoy changing steaming towards you then veering of. Radar is a definite boon.

I agree with dazautomatics, the weather on the top corner of Spain can be awful, we had far, far worse weather there than on our crossing year before last.

any whichever way you cross, have a safe passage
 
[ QUOTE ]
Hi Nick

If you posting on here it is a good sign of common sense (Not weakness) if you are unsure about the crossing ask yourselves this:

Are you and the wife up for 5 days of big seas, possibility of storm force winds, little sleep and a lot’s of pair trawlers to dodge?

If like most of us you are not superheroes, then I would recommend going around the inside, it’s a nice trip and some of the scenery is amazing.

Some will tell you that Biscay is easy and they motored across (Nice when it happens) I have monitored the weather in Biscay intermittently for two years (Two Crossings) and seen the weather change mid summer, violently without warning.

We got first hand experience of how nasty it gets in “The Biscay” so we did the in-shore route this year and arrived in Spain more refreshed and with less damage and a lot dryer than the direct route.

Good luck, Darren

P.S. If you do go across then watch the La Coruna / Cape Finisterre area as F8 eastlieys blew for most of last summer. And this brings massive seas

[/ QUOTE ]

I have to dissagree with your passage plan, going round is risking more damage/problems than going accross.
Going round you are on a lee shore, with not that many all weather all tide havens.
You are still facing at least, one two night passage, instead of three nights strait across.
Plus it,s a long, not easy coast then along N Spain.
Fishing boats, you will encounter many more going round.
I have had one bad rounding of Finisterre (as crew), but many more motoring sailing round.
5dayAtlantic forecasts are pretty reliable these days
Going round Biscay is not an easy option, IMHO
 
A Biscay crossing should be a daunting prospect the first time across as skipper, it means you are taking it seriously and thinking everything through. If you leave from Plymouth or Falmouth with a good forcast and you head for La Coruna, if you get any unwanted weather forcast in the first 24 hours you can visit Cameret, if not keep on going. Hopefully you will have many hours with wildlife around the boat and not too much shipping, just enough to keep you awake! Do consult your insurance company, they may dictate the minimum crew requirements and the months for the trip, and try not to rush past the Rias of NW spain, I think they are are lovely when the morning fog clears!! If it feels right, go for it, have a good trip.
 
Only you can know your competence and ability to cope with bad weather. But I'd urge you not to rush. Brittany and Galicia, in particular, have much to offer. Is getting to the Med quickly really so important?
Advice on crossing Biscay itself tends to boil down to the go deep/coast hop alternatives, whereas in truth it's not so black and white. I crossed from Brittany to just west of Gijon last summer, since going direct to La Corunna or Finisterre would have meant missing the Rias Altas, which are sublime.
Two thirds of the trip was beyond the continental shelf (and the part that wasn't, the first part, is obviously the most accurately forecast). The whole trip took 2 1/2 days, well within the province of forecasting (not that that's any guarantee).
Quite apart from any insurance requirements, three on board will make the Biscay adventure altogether less of an ordeal.
 
Good replies already. Your insurer might want an extra crew as well as you two. We found a crew from Crewseekers and were well pleased but as another poster points out, don't get stuck with someone on a deadline - you will regret it. We had a young retiree who was building up his sea miles and he saw us down from Falmouth to Lagos. Worked well for us both.
 
Given your stated experience, I reckon you are 'qualified' to make a Biscay crossing. Go on a good forecast and enjoy whichever routing you decide. A couple of points that are outside your present experience:
Watches: You will need a formal watch-keeping system. Work out what it's going to be before you leave, don't just 'wing it'. Have a back up system if your first thoughts aren't suitable for any reason.
Food: You can't exist on sandwiches for 5 days! (Well, you could but hot food is very 'encouraging' when the going gets tough). Prepare some food before you go, at least one hot meal that just needs to be warmed up.
Fatigue: Mistakes happen when people are tired. Get some rest during the trip. Are you able to comfortably sleep for a couple of hours and leave 'your mate' to run the boat. If the weather does cut up rough, it's almost invariably safer to remain at sea rather than run for an unknown harbour.
The actual route (across or around) is a matter of personal preference. I really don't think one is an 'easier option' than the other. Going around may take much longer.
A final word on watchkeeping. It takes about 48 hours to settle into a routine. Enjoy, and don't get put off by Biscays' reputation. It deserves respect, of course, it requires planning and preparation (yourselves and the boat) but pick your time and enjoy.
 
We left Plymouth and went straight to villamoura, got a good kicking off finesterre a force 9 with massive waves it's often like that if you look at the synoptics.
Biscay was fantastic- had we steered another 50 to 100 miles west at the bottom we would have missed the worst of it.

Sailed out of the mess at the bottom into two days and nights of thick fog and not a breath of wind so take plenty of fuel!

"We" were three channel crossing sailors never tackled and Ocean before but done a fair bit of lumpy stuff in the channel,

I'd say go out in some heavy weather which you'll probably get on the way down to the west country!

Read heavy weather sailing too - practice heaving too, be prepared to let the boat do what it's comfortable with in big seas, the HR was best left to quarter the seas, the mountains were too steep to run straight down them without pitch poling at the bottom.

sorry waffling on

Ian
 
What were the three and five day forecasts, and the GFS (gribs) like when you left Plymouth? Was there any indication of the pasting you actually got or was it completely out of the blue? What conditions do you avoid - e.g. less that F8,.....?
 
Well, we had a force 13, with 200 foot waves...
Both strapped to the cabin sole for 6 weeks until the maelstrom abated.

................................................................

actually a nice F6 SE /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Only you know your abilites.. Biscay is worst at the equinoxes.. avoid them like the plague.
Cameret Sur Mer in NW France is a good option, from Falmouth around 20 to 24 hours.. you need to read up on the Chanel du Four going in and the Raz de Sein going out.. its then a 3 day hop to La Coruna or nearly 4 to Bayona.
A five day forecast is marginal really, a 3 day is much better.. be weather aware, dont just rely on the 3 day, get a good understanding of it. Donload synotpic charts en route if you can, and can interpret them.
One other thing to watch for is the strong easterly scenario around 50 miles from the spanish coast. This often occurs in summer with a high over northern france / UK and a low over south portugal in settled condition, a compression zone builds between the two pressure systems, no clouds to warn you or frontal condition, just a rapid increase in wind strength. It is easilly shown on any synoptic, but not often forecast or indeed mentioned, but you can see it so no excuse.. if you know its there you prepare for it in advance..

Have fun, plan, take care, and you will enjoy.
 
[ QUOTE ]
had we steered another 50 to 100 miles west at the bottom we would have missed the worst of it.

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We were thinking of going from Cork or Kinsale in early August down to La-Coruna - I have read and researched that this keeps you nice and west and avoids more of the traditionally 'lumpy' areas that you tend to go through if coming from Falmouth (when you 'cut the corner' in most instances).

Anyone done this trip and can offer any advice?

Jonny
 
We had a average forecast force 4/5 beam reach but the actual weather was less than that,

The "small" area of nasty developed and sat there as it often does.. Bless him Tome was doing the routing advice and sent us through it to save the miles. It came up on navtex.

Ian
 
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