BioDiesel and older engines.. problem???

SHUG

SHUG

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I read that
"The new ULSD and BioDiesels are particularly destructive to factory nitrile o-rings."
Does this mean that some older diesel engines and fuel systems are going to have problems as the percentege of Bio Diesel increases in fuel supplies?
 
SHUG said:
I read that
"The new ULSD and BioDiesels are particularly destructive to factory nitrile o-rings."
Does this mean that some older diesel engines and fuel systems are going to have problems as the percentege of Bio Diesel increases in fuel supplies?
Click to expand...

Yes.

Pasted in, a Cruising Association statement:


Press Release from the Regulations and Technical Services Group of the Cruising Association

The New Marine Diesel Fuel – the latest position

The regulations for the new grade of diesel fuel were introduced on the 14th January because of an EU Directive. It is a low sulphur diesel fuel technically known as Sulphur Free Gas Oil (SFGO) that has a content of only 10 parts per million of sulphur, instead of the existing 1000 parts per million. It will now have to be used by many leisure vessels and yachts.

The reduction of sulphur causes a loss of lubricating effect but additives will be mixed with the diesel to bring the lubricity to the required standard so as the fuel pumps and injectors continue to work correctly.

The CA has now been advised by the Federation of Petroleum Suppliers that most of the new fuel will not contain Fatty Acid Methyl Ester (FAME). This is a bio-fuel obtained from renewable sources intended to reduce consumption of the world’s limited oil supply. It can, however, have a seriously detrimental effect on some marine engines. It is known to make worse the problems of ‘bugs’ in tanks causing blocked filters, break-down to acids leading to engine equipment damage and leakage from fuel component seals. The storage life of fuel with FAME is also much reduced and it may necessitate costly tank emptying over winter and even disposal of contents for many yachts and motor vessels.

The Regulations and Technical Services Group understands that a number of marinas are arranging with their suppliers to soon provide them with FAME free diesel but it is possible that some diesel fuel could have up 2% FAME in it until mid 2011.

One supplier has suggested to the FPS that they will be supply fuel with up to 7% . This may be the Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel (ULSD) road diesel with the red excise dye added. It is hoped that the oil industry will produce a map showing the areas where FAME-free diesel can be bought

There is a possibility that imports of low sulphur diesel may contain FAME.
.
We strongly advise Cruising Association members (and all other boaters) to ask their supplier of diesel fuel:

• what is the age and sulphur content of the fuel ?
• does it contain FAME ?

If a marina or fuel outlet does not know the answers then yachtsmen should ask them to ask their own supplier, and then their supplier and so on up the chain until an answer is obtained, in print.

We re-iterate that fuel containing FAME should be avoided where possible.

There is no change to fuel taxation or the rules governing use of ‘red’ diesel.

The Cruising Association is concerned at the situation and has written to the Under Secretary of State at the Department of Transport, who is in charge of the matter, urging him to:

• ban FAME in all marine diesel because of the risk of catastrophic engine failure at sea and the cost and difficulty of cleaning contaminated fuel from boat tanks and engine systems, and
• to require fuel outlets to notify users at point of sale of the specification and contents of their fuel.

The introduction of the low sulphur fuel (SFGO) is required by EU Directive.
Fuel outlets will be able to supply only the new grade of fuel to vessels which do not normally operate beyond the limits of category A and B waters or the deep lakes and lochs of Category C. These categories are defined in the Merchant Shipping (Prevention of Air Pollution) Regulations*. Recreational craft which are outside of these areas and ‘go to sea’ may still use the existing fuel which has the higher level of 1000ppm of sulphur if it can be obtained.


* MCA Categories

Categories A, B and C are defined as follows:
Category A: Narrow rivers and canals where the depth of water is generally less than 1.5 metres. (Corresponding to EU inland waterway zone 4).
Category B: Wider rivers and canals where the depth of water is generally more than 1.5 metres and where the significant wave height could not be expected to exceed 0.6 metres at any time. (Corresponding to EU inland waterway zone 3).
Category C: Tidal rivers and estuaries and large, deep lakes and lochs where the significant wave height could not be expected to exceed 1.2 metres at any time. (Corresponding to EU inland waterway zone 2).
“go to sea” means to operate seaward of Category A, B, and C.
 
In Munich about 15 years ago when the first Biodiesel pump became available (100% Biodiesel - not a mixture), they said that most new cars probably could not use it because of issues with the material used in fuel pipes and joints, but that most old cars would have no problem.

I ran my Citroen CX on it with no noticeable problems or differences except the smell the exhaust made.
 
Also the fishermans gas oil as we find it around the islands; often the only stuff going?

How does the garage DERV fit into the picture. It looks like eu are writing off the old engines just like they did with the 2stroke outboards.

What steps are the RYA taking in this? Probably none!
 
double_ender said:
Also the fishermans gas oil as we find it around the islands; often the only stuff going?

How does the garage DERV fit into the picture. It looks like eu are writing off the old engines just like they did with the 2stroke outboards.

What steps are the RYA taking in this? Probably none!
Click to expand...

Considering all oats on the continent use road/white fuel there seems to be few problems here. My old T90 has run very happily on white.
 
I'm finding all the advice on this very confusing. In the yachting press there have been a number of articles with titles such as "Can my engine run on bio-fuel?" but the information and advice is so generic and vague that it offers no real answer to the individual.

Whilst there are a number of purpose designed marine engines, most are actually small industrial engines which are marinised by various companies - typically only adapting the cooling and exhaust. These base engines will normally be used on building sites, etc. and fed with road diesel, so is there actually any risk to the engine apart from the solvent action on sludge in the tanks and lines?

I seem to recall that the Yanmar manuals all state that the fuel requirement is of a cetane rating only achieved with derv, so most boaters are running them on below-spec fuel at the moment. That may explain why so many posts relate to starting problems with Yanmars, particularly as they use over-fueling for cold starts and not heaters and many owners are not aware of how to reset the fuel rack for a cold start. I hold my hand up to that one as I marinised a Yanmar twin which would only start cold with full throttle on red diesel.

Until manufacturers address the issue and freely offer advice to their customers, how is one to know the best course of action?

Rob.
 
My concern with the newer bio-diesel fuels is not compatibility with seals etc but with problems arising from storage in tanks.
AFAIK, fuels containing ~7% bio, the level which has been recently prescribed for road vehicles, is very unlikely to harm nitrile seals etc. although high concentrations could be more damaging, but only in the fairly long-term.
Bio-fuels are however now much more likely to deteriorate in storage. Car manufacturers, e.g. Ford, are now specifically warning owners against leaving diesel fuel in the tank for longer than 3 months.
Fuel remains in my boat tank for much longer periods. I think that this is the most compelling reason for now avoiding road diesel and trying to source bio-free fuel.
 
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