Bilgekeel vs. Finkeel

[Sarum 28]

I am interested to buy a Sarum 28, I trust in Aluminium, thats it.
My wife loves to stay in the UK in small harbours not only in marinas. So a bilgekeel is her favorit.
My favorit destination are the canary islands for the winter time - I have a house there.
I have never been on a bilgekeel hull, but I am interested.
So my questions are:
Has a Sarum with bilgekeel substantial limitations in tacking against the trade winds from canary island to UK?
Therefor a finkeel would be best.
But whats the difference in knots, etc.?

I have heard from Sarums to sail to the Azores. Has the bilgekeel less stability when going offshore?

We passed last year from Milford Haven to Belgium and there was no marina between Milford Haven and Penzenze for us with a 40 feelt finkeel.
Have we missed the most beautiful parts of Cornwal?

I know the Reeds Almanach but is there literature regarding in particular the small harbours I might visit with a bilgekeel? (I am looking for a birthday gift for my wife)

Thanks,
Willi

 

[sailorman]

I am interested to buy a Sarum 28, I trust in Aluminium, thats it.
My wife loves to stay in the UK in small harbours not only in marinas. So a bilgekeel is her favorit.
My favorit destination are the canary islands for the winter time - I have a house there.
I have never been on a bilgekeel hull, but I am interested.
So my questions are:
Has a Sarum with bilgekeel substantial limitations in tacking against the trade winds from canary island to UK?
Therefor a finkeel would be best.
But whats the difference in knots, etc.?

I have heard from Sarums to sail to the Azores. Has the bilgekeel less stability when going offshore?

We passed last year from Milford Haven to Belgium and there was no marina between Milford Haven and Penzenze for us with a 40 feelt finkeel.
Have we missed the most beautiful parts of Cornwal?

I know the Reeds Almanach but is there literature regarding in particular the small harbours I might visit with a bilgekeel? (I am looking for a birthday gift for my wife)

Thanks,
Willi

speed "might" be similar
VMG will be totally different
if you want to go sideways @ speed get 2 keels
if you want to go to windward get a fin keel

 

[Bosun Higgs]

Has a Sarum with bilgekeel substantial limitations in tacking against the trade winds from canary island to UK?
Therefor a finkeel would be best.
But whats the difference in knots, etc.?

Yes there is a significant difference - I would put it at about 15 to 20% difference in passage time to windward or about 10% overall, based on experience of racing both types with similar hulls and sails. The difference would be bigger if you compared it to (say ) a Benny First

I have heard from Sarums to sail to the Azores. Has the bilgekeel less stability when going offshore?

We passed last year from Milford Haven to Belgium and there was no marina between Milford Haven and Penzenze for us with a 40 feelt finkeel.
Have we missed the most beautiful parts of Cornwal?

Yes and yes.

I know the Reeds Almanach but is there literature regarding in particular the small harbours I might visit with a bilgekeel? (I am looking for a birthday gift for my wife)

Thanks,
Willi

There will be but I dont know it.

 

[Searush]

It is NOT true to say that twin keels have less stability than fin keels - if they are correctly designed. In fact there is some evidence that twin keels may be safer in certain conditions as their ability to slip sideways in a breaking wave top can prevent roll over where a deep keel effectively trip a boat up.

The key benefit of twin keels (for me) is their easy ability to take the ground & dry out. So around the Channel Islands there are many opportunities to take the ground amongst the reefs in sheltered spots. Anywhere with shalloow waters, muddy creeks or big tides will offer excellent opportunities to enjoy the advantages of twin keels.

If you get a chance, read this, a paper by Lord Riversdale, designerm builder & owner of a series of twin keel ocean roaming yachts. He was, effectively the father of twin keels & put a lot of effort into getting it right.

 

[Tranona]

The Sarum 28 is a very rare boat. It had a good reputation, but was expensive when new and aluminium has never been popular in UK.

There are many bilge keel boats of that size (27-30ft or so) and the later ones perform very well even compared with fin keel versions. However most have deeper draft than earlier boats such as the Centaur but still useful for drying out. You have more chance of finding a boat in good condition looking for more popular boats such as Sadler, Moody or Westerly, all of which made good bilge keel boats.

 

[Slow_boat]

My twin keel Sadler 29 appears to the same speed overall as the shallow fin version but looses about 5-10% in pointing ability. She has to be sailed a bit free-er and the slamming under the windward keel can be a bit off putting at first. The same is true of the Westerly Fulmar 32 and the Merlin, I believe. it is a trade off I am more than happy to make for the sake of a cheap mooring and visiting places where I wouldn't trust yacht legs.

As for a book, try the Shell Channel Pilot. More than just a pilot book and written with a wry smile. It covers Scilly Isles to Dunkirk, both the English and French coasts and is very well worth having on board or for winter evenings at home.

 

[BAtoo]

My twin keel Sadler 29 appears to the same speed overall as the shallow fin version but looses about 5-10% in pointing ability. She has to be sailed a bit free-er and the slamming under the windward keel can be a bit off putting at first. The same is true of the Westerly Fulmar 32 and the Merlin, I believe. it is a trade off I am more than happy to make for the sake of a cheap mooring and visiting places where I wouldn't trust yacht legs.

And the deep fin version of your Sadler will sail about another 5% higher than the shallow keel.
(Had a deep fin Sadler 32. There was a decent article many years ago in YM or PBO comparing the 3 versions of the Sadler 32)

 

[ditchcrawler]

If you look at the hadicaps for various boats on www.byronsoftware.org.uk/bycn/by02000.htm you will see differences for the same boat twin keel 5-10% slower than fin keel.It is true to say that the difference is most apparent upwind and there is not so much difference downwind.

 

[grumpy_o_g]

The question was "Has a Sarum with bilgekeel substantial limitations in tacking against the trade winds from canary island to UK", not "are bilge-keeler's in general slower than fin-keelers?". The difference between a fin and bilge keel version varies from boat to boat. The other issue would be keel slap which, although it's very rarely actually going to cause structural problems, can be so annoying as to completely spoil your day.

What a Sarum 28 is like I have no idea but I would have thought most 28 foot cruisers would not be at their best plugging into a headwind and a mid-Atlantic swell. As a separate question would you actually spend that much time with a headwind coming up North from the Canaries?

With the possible exception of a Centaur or similar which has suffered from the splayed keel problem caused by repeated heavyish grounding, I can't think of a single case of a boat that has foundered between it has bilge keels (which doesn't mean there aren't any cases of course).

Edit: you'll probably find a decent pilot guide such as The Channel Cruising Companion may give you a better idea of where it's safe to take the ground. I suspect you're not UK based but the best way is to get to a decent Chandlers and flick through them to see which has what you want.

 

[penfold]

What about an Alubat Ovni? Popular in Froggyland and they would be a bit nippier upwind.

 

[Theshipscat]

Have a look at the RM. They are beautiful and very quick. Just don't call them a bilge keel, they're twin keels. It's finding one for sale that's the problem. There's a waiting list for new ones and owners just don't seem to part with them often.
Below is the little one.

 

[rwoofer]

Have a look at the RM. They are beautiful and very quick. Just don't call them a bilge keel, they're twin keels. It's finding one for sale that's the problem. There's a waiting list for new ones and owners just don't seem to part with them often.
Below is the little one.

Redundancy was the straw that broke the camels back that pushed me to sell my RM880. Went back to France as they are coveted there. Now back in a job beginning to wish I hadn't. C'est la vie.

 

[Tin Tin]

if you want to go sideways @ speed get 2 keels
if you want to go to windward get a fin keel

 

[Theshipscat]

I think you need to have a sail on a seawolf 26 or 30 or an RM.
My boat points as high as many fin keels and if sailed properly doesn't go side ways.