Bilge Water/Pump Concerns - Please help

dauntlessman

dauntlessman

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Hello. I'm new to this forum so a big hello to all the wooden boat owners out there. After a spell away from sailing I have picked up a recently restored, 1950's Dauntless (Clinker built, Mahogany on Oak). I've got a couple of concerns over bilge water and what type of pump to fit.

Firstly - Bilge Water:

She has not been sailed since last season but has remained in the water over the winter. I took her out last weekend in a bit of a breeze and was alarmed to see quite a substantial amount of water coming in through the planks above the waterline (when healed over). Do you think that this sounds reasonable as these planks have probably been bone dry over the winter and perhaps need to swell?

Bilge Pump:

She is currently fitted with a manual pump but as she does take in a bit of water (both rain and sea), I would like to fit an automatic pump on a float switch. What size pump do you think I should go for given that she is 22Ft LOA? The pump would also run from a small car battery (which also starts the inboard). Do you think the pump would run the battery flat quickly? And lastly, how much seawater is acceptable to be floating around in the bilges of a 50 year old boat?

Sorry about all the questions. I’m quite new to yachts having moved up from Dinghy’s. I'm primed for a bit of DIY this weekend so was hoping I could get some help! Many thanks - Alex
 
Hi,
Not sure about the bilge pump questions, size and battery life etc; But when it comes to the planking, ask think about whether there is any chance the planks will swell.

If she's been in the water since at least the beginning of last season, then unless you sail her very frequently, and heeled over for very long periods, then I guess those planks will have taken up about as much as they can. At this time of year, the planks shuld be as swelled as they get, end of the wet season before the sun really comes onto them. They may close up but if you're shipping a lot of water, then it may be something to look at. The view from my desk isn't great, so it's all suggestion, but get a good look at it.

As for water in the bilges. Wet electrics - bad. Wet feet in the summer - cool. Rain water in the bilges - ROTS. Salt water in the bilges- pickles! If there is a little coming in from below, fine, if there's any coming in from the rain, very bad!

Hope that helps and have a great summer on the water.
 
I would echo B-S-J's comments about rainwater ingress and urge you get covers or use some other method of making sure fresh water can't get to where it may lie.
The plank fastenings can wait for the next haul-out if she continues taking.
If you are concerned about the ability of the battery to keep up with the bilge pump, how about a small solar panel to provide a trickle charge?
Better still, there is on the market a bilge pump that operates on wave power. It looks a bit like a dan bouy with a sliding float. Put the pipe in the bilge, chuck the floaty bit overboard and it will continuously pump the bilge. Of course, no use when under way.
Sorry, I don't have a brand name but could track it down if you are interested.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Better still, there is on the market a bilge pump that operates on wave power. It looks a bit like a dan bouy with a sliding float.

[/ QUOTE ]

This sounds great. Please try to track down and sumit a link. I tried Google but no luck so far.
 
And the supplier ! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif web page

I am getting seriously fed up with Google. Nowadays every search seems to return lots of other search sites rather than the actual thing I'm looking for /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif
 
I'm against electric bilge pumps (don't like amps running round in the bilge!) and endorse what BSJ says about keeping rain water OUT!

I differ a bit because I find that it is quite possible for a boat that has been afloat, upright, for a long time to take water in through topsides seams as soon as she heels, espescially if there has been a drying wind or hot sun on them. We've had rather a dry spring.
 
Hi, I have a 28' wooden sloop. When alone on her moorings she relies on a small Plastimo elecric bilge pump. Last year she went in at end of July and came out Nov 5th. All on one charge of the battery. Whenever I went out to her (she was just sitting around taking up after 12 years ashore) there was very little water in the bilges. This means either she was virtually tight or the pump was running a lot - who knows.

Taking up above the w/line. My high school physics (rusty and obsolete) suggest that the air above the water level will be saturated with water vapour. Certainly the water will be saturated with oxygen at about 150mmHg pressure. The planks above the water line then must be taking on water at a good rate and so will take up only slightly slower thatn those beneath the w/line. On my sloop that happened with the gap between the top two planks initially letting light in to being fully closed in about 4 - 6 weeks.

Try hosing her down, or chucking buckets of water at her inside, and see what happens. You may need to re-caulk some planks.
 
I had a similar problem with leaks when I sailed Kala Sona, also clinker built, the first time. There was a frightening amount of water leaking in when she heeled. I found that it was the chain plates which were corroded with their fixings and allowing much water past the so called water tight seal. Getting the metalwork was not a problem but the nine small wedges, all slightly different shapes, was a challenge!. Renewing these plates solved that particular problem. I bedded them all in with a polysulphide compound and after four years it appears as good as new.

As for Automatic Bilge Pumps I have a Rule, I think 800 gph capacity on a Rule float switch. This works very well although I have a 110 AH battery to power it. I also have a spare Rule pump with a flexible discharge hose which is only needed when launching after the winter ashore. If you leave her too long ashore you can have spectaular amounts of water being pumped and bailed out! With Kala Sona she takes about three hours to take up sufficiently to leave her with only the automatic bilge pump.

Clinker built boats really can be quite fun!!!
 
Firstly, I'd get a cover for the cockpit: most of your rainwater will be coming in through this area, and it would also protect your varnish against the sun. As for the leaking topsides, after a long dry spell I found some old blankets (that SWMBO didn't want any more - most important!), secure them over the toerail, so that they hang down over the topsides, and thoroughly soak them in water. If you have access to the interior of the hull (not too many lockers, etc) you can do this inside too - in fact it works better, as the sun won't dry it out so quickly. Whatever you do, do NOT caulk the seam: clinker boats aren't designed to be caulked, when the planking does finally take up, the caulking will put huge strains on the fastenings, and make the problem worse.
 
One major problem with a cockpit cover is that it stops that most important medium for preventing rot which is the passage of air. My boat had a cockpit cover and one over the forehatch which blocked an air vent, the toilet and galley vents were screwed down tight and there was lot of rot spores in various places in the cabin. Luckily actual rot had not developed except in the area around the cockpit and I managed to clean her up ok and have the damage around the beam shelf and decks repaired.

I now have got rid of the cockpit and forehatch cover and opened up all vents as well as leaving the cover off the stern locker when she is moored. I have had no more problems with rot spores and she is very sweet inside. I rely on drainage to clear the cockpit and make sure that all rainwater falling aboard can drain away without pooling.

I am satisfied that this is the correct way.
 
When I had a major leak (since cured) I fitted an automatic bilge pump, a month or two later found the switch was no longer working - the chandler replaced it , no question, but it could have cost me dearly - replacement in such circumstances would have been no compensation!
 
Thanks for all your help on this. I can sleep a little easier knowing that this is a fairly common situation. I'm fitting my bilge pump this weekend but have decided to leave the manual pump in place just in case. I will report back again...
 
Cockpit covers - another point of view

I respectfully beg to differ!

Firstly, I agree that good through ventilation is vital. However, I don't think it is difficult to arrange cockpit and forehatch covers so that they allow fresh air to pass, but not rainwater or burglars.

My cockpit cover is open aft. over the counter, and under it, when the boat is on her mooring, is the lazarette hatch with the hatch cover off. At the other end of the boat the forehatch has "ears" and when these are up and the cover is over the part open hatch (padlock and chain fitted!) we get a howling draft from one end of the boat to the other. Only a highly trained ferret can enter the boat via the lazarette hatch.

On the other hand, if you don't fit a cockpit cover then one of the two following situations arises:

1. The cockpit is not self draining - you get rainwater (encouraging rot!) in the bilges...

2. The cockpit is self draining, so you leave the boat on the mooring with the seacocks open, relying on a Jubilee clip and a plastic hose to stay afloat...
 
Re: Cockpit covers - another point of view

I think that we are arriving at the same principle - to have air flowing freely through every part of the boat. I do not have a cover on my cockpit so it is open with all padlocks in place and only an empty locker accessible. I change the plastic hoses every two years and have two jubilee clips on the seaward side of the drain.

It all works for me particularly last year when she was on an exposed swinging mooring and bedevilled by everything that went to and from the Port of Southampton. That was very good for the hull but mucked up the paintwork!
 
Re: Cockpit covers - another point of view

I am finally getting around to accomplishing one of the first jobs I was set (by Mirelle, actually) when I bought Crystal and having a full cover made for her. The plan is to have a custom one made which can act as both cover and awning in the yard, allowing work to be carried out during the rain, but will also fit right over her on the water, protecting the brightwork from the sun and the fabric from the rain. Somehow, however, I need to figure out a way to allow airflow via the forehatch (probably propped open, it doesn't hinge sadly), the portlights, mushroom vents on the coachroof and counter, and hit-and-miss vents in the companionway doors. This design is going to get complicated (and pricey, I think)...

/<
 
Re: Cockpit covers - another point of view

Mirelle had a new winter cover this year, made by Stephen Hall of North Sea Sails, Tollesbury, tailored to fit (including two fittings, very Saville Row!) with two portholes for small boys and a door, and chafing patches and zips in all directions. Ample ventilation. The envy of the entire boatyard. Highly recommended. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
That sounds about the ticket...

...may I be so bold as to ask for a PM with some hint at the cost? And can it be used in and out of the water? This year is going to be the biggest Crystal budget for the forseeable future, so she may well get a few treats.
 
Casey - I should have said that my cover doesn't go over any of my ventilators: I benefit from twin dorades on the coachroof, opening ports over galley and head and mushroom vents fore and aft. The boat is always left fully open below decks, from transom to cable locker. With this arrangement there's often a noticeable breeze below decks (always aft to forward, even when the wind is ahead). She's 49 years old, and no rot yet.
 
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