Bilge Keels Question - Please Help!

[carl170]

I have been offered a Hurley grp trailer sailer with bilge keels. When I went to board her (out of the water), she was full of water!.

I drained out as much as I could with a bilge pump. There are slots either side of the boat (under the seating) that look as though they are where the keels are mounted. There were two concrete blocks in each which just lifted out. There was water in these pockets too.

My worry is that water may have seeped through to the keels themselves. It looks like some type of iron strut underneath which may be attached to the Bilge Keel structure themselves(?).

Am I worrying unecessarily, or should I be concerned about the water in these Bilge pockets? From the outside, the hull looks fine with no bulging or blistering on the keels.

Is there amn easy way to remove all the water/moisture?

Any comments would be much appreciated!.

Thanks

Carl




<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[AndrewB]

Now she's out it won't be so easy to tell where the leaks are coming from. If the bilges start to refill in wet weather (or when your spray water over the deck), then clearly it is from above. The seacocks are suspect: look to see if there are any signs of old water streaks - or better, bung the outlets from the outside and fill the pipes with water. Even those some way from the 'pockets' as it is remarkable how far water can spread through the bilges. Finally, if you refill the bilges and then on a dry day see traces of damp on the outside, it must be the keels. However, the keel joints are under compression ashore so it could be you have leaks there even if none now show.

The odds are it isn't the keels, but they do often come to leak on older bilge-keelers. If it is, then having them rebedded isn't cheap but is certainly possible.

 

[sailorman]

always "taste" the water prior to pumping - out ( thats if your boat is in salt water)

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[carl170]

Its not the leaks that worry me - I have sussed where they are coming from, its the worry that water in these pockets may have seeped into the keel structure.

The rain has been coming in for the last six weeks from a hole in the coachroof cover (I think that is the correct term). When I drained the boat out, I got out as much water as I could from these two "pockets".

What I don't understand is the cushions abover these two bilge pockets seemed dry, so I can't figure out how the rain water (assuming ot is rainwater!) actually got there. Most of the water seemed to be in the main floor section (which I would have expected).

I read in a book on fiberglass yacht surveying that the keels can just drop off if water gets to them and compromises the structure!

Thats what worries me!

Any more feedback much appreciated!

Thanks

Carl

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[AndrewB]

Apologies for missing the point.

I have sailed a Hurley 20 but am unsure of the keel configuration. As far as I recall, they are iron sheets bolted on from inside the cabin, a common configuration in bilge-keelers this size. Obviously the bolts are given protection against bilge water often by glassing over, though eventually with osmosis some can seep in. The more usual source of ingress and damage is through the hull-keel joint which may flex in time on a bilge keeler. The bolts are typically mild steel, and corrode in seawater, though typically much slower than they would in open air. It is common with an older boat to withdraw one or two when it is surveyed, to check their condition and replace if necessary. The yacht design should permit this, though sometimes one or two can be a bit inaccessible. X-raying is another possibility.

A professional survey will set your mind at rest, though at quite high cost relative to the value of this yacht. But you would probably need a survey anyway in order to get insured. In practice keels falling off as a result of poor keelbolts is a fairly rare event, but can happen, with a bilge-keeler most likely when the yacht is grounding.

If your position is that you are thinking of buying this yacht, and you don't want the expense of a survey without being reasonably sure its OK, then you should be cautious if there is any sign of problems around the hull-keel joint outside. It is possible to fix this, but it would be a major cost.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[carl170]

Thanks for replying to my post!

There was no sign of any problems on the outside at all. My main worry is if I can stop the damage that has been done recently. One one of the sides, there were was a strip of what appeared to be plastic resin across these plates (only a very thin piece of steel by the look of it).

A piece of this resin came off when I scratched at it. It was about three-four inches
long.

I would assume if I can completely dry these pockets out ( I could use a a layer of silica gel on top to hopefully draw any excess moisture out). She has been negelected for about two months now (although there was no water visible in photo's that were taken a few weeks ago by a guy I know at the boatyard.

I think I could get the keels inspected, but that would probably be over the top as you say.

On the plus side, the Hurley is not composed of a basla core etc, so I'm hoping that the damage (if any) will be limited. I don't fully understand osmosis, as I have read that most hulls have moisture in them anyway!.
Thanks again.

Carl

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[seaesta]

I would not have thought that a single 6 week soaking would be a great problem to a well made boat. I have a bilge keeler and she has had water in the bilge pockets for weeks on end without me knowing (rain ingress and the prblem hidden because of bilge pockets being used to keep the ale and wine cool). Also the iron skeg has a "pocket" and bolts and this is where the bilge pump is sited. These bolts have been wet for 30 years. I suggest you stop the leak, dry her out as best you can with rags etc, get plenty of air through the boat (all port holes open with buckets to catch rain) and dont worry about this water unless it recurrs.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[EddyMack]

If it's any re-assurance (although I won't respond well to litigation) I have had a number of GRP bilge keelers of the Early 70s generation. Some have had keels bolted through into the hull. However in quite a few years of sailing I have often had plenty of water in my bilges, often for weeks (or longer) at a time and my keels have not been unintentionally consigned to the deep. As Andrew suggests an survey may put your mind at ease, in my experience it is a rare occurrence for a Insurance survey to demand keel x-rays on a boat with the construction and age of a Hurley. I would rest assured, boats get wet, as often do their owners! I once was looking for a Halcyon 24 for a friend and I had seen one advertised cheap somewhere in the very North of Scotland. I spoke to the broker and asked as to the state of the hull. They replied, without a trace of irony, "Well she's filling up nicely and none seems to be leaking out, I say that was an indication that she's sound." (The boat was sold before I could arrange the trip.) I would rest assured, boats get wet, as often, at this time of year, do their owners!

If you want to find out about osmosis, although by no means an exact science, I recommend anything written by Hugo Du Plessis. Who, although occasionally described as controversial (usually by boat builders), is to my mind right on the money when it comes to explaining what fun water and GRP can be.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[DanTribe]

Re:Tasting bilge water

Best to avoid this practice if you have a holding tank !

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[chriscallender]

Re:Tasting bilge water

Must admit I've always wondered about this bilge water tasting business... even without the holding tank I couldn't bring myself to taste water from the bilge, I might love the boat but not that much! Maybe its just me but it seems too much of a stinking dirty bacteria breeding ground down there to risk a tasting!

Has anyone ever tried using a hydrometer (sold by homebrew shops for a couple of quid) to test the specific gravity of the bilge water. According to some web site thrown up by Google, seawater has SG=1.030 and freshwater is of course 1.000. The range of numbers is similar to that used in brewing so the scale on a brewing hydrometer should be fine. You should even be able to tell if the bilge contents are a mixture of fresh and seawater, and what the proportion is.

Has anyone actually tried this?

Chris

<hr width=100% size=1>