Bilge keeler as a trailer sailer

[BenMurphy]

I've been looking around for a decent trailer sailer around the 17-18 feet mark. Up to now everything I've looked at has been lifting keel, but one has come up that's a bilge keeler - it's an Express Pirate 17 and draws pretty much bang on a metre. The lister is saying it's an ideal trailer sailer, but are bilge keelers as easy to launch as lifting keel boats? Will it still be easy to launch off any slip with a car or does it need more clearance?

Love to hear from anyone who regularly trailer sails with a small bilge keeler.

 

[ProDave]

We sail a bilge keel leisure 17 and have done slipway launches and recovery (but not as a trailer sailor just start and end of season)

If the boat draws 1 metre then the trailer needs to be in the water 1 metre deep plus however high the keel platforms are on the trailer. That's likely 1.3 metres or about 4 feet in old money. you won't get it that deep still attached to the car so an extension drawbar or just let it down the slipway on a length of rope.

Some boats you can do a "dry" launch and recovery. We have done this with the L17, you basically tip it off the trailer onto the dry slip and wait for the tide to come in, and recovery you park the boat on the slip and wait for the tide to go out, though a dry recovery of the L17 is not easy and I think we have decided "never again"

We keep ours on a pontoon in a harbour all season. My first boat was a lift keel that we bought thinking we would trailer sail it but after the first launch decided it was so much work to launch and recover that we would probably get fed up and never go sailing,.

 

[Spirit (of Glenans)]

I found, with my first boat, a Leisure 17, that I did not have enough water on my local slipway, at Malahide, except at spring tides, as there was a large drop at the end. I took to leaving the boat and trailer on the sand beside the slipway until it floated off, securing the boat to the the slip before recovering the trailer by means of a long rope that I had laid out, then getting the car and trailer off the beach before the water rose too high. For recovery I had to position the trailer, wait for High Water, get into the water and guide the boat onto the trailer as the tide ebbed, again using the previously laid out long rope attached to the car to pull the trailer up above the waterline. The mast had to be lowered before towing away.
Needless to say, I soon decided to take a mooring!

 

[Stemar]

One advantage of bilge keels is that you may be able to use a suitable car trailer for it, rather than a boat trailer, which could save a fair bit of money.

However, based on what I've seen and read, there are a lot of people who think a trailer sailer means they go somewhere, set up, launch and go sailing, but find that the set, launch and recovery is too much faff. They end up leaving the boat afloat for the season, only trailing to come home for winter or for a cruise in a new area.

 

[Corribee Boy]

I think the first two posts have covered the problem: My Corribee draws about 85 cm and has to be floated over a dolly, then winched on to the trailer once the tide has dropped a bit. Positioning it correctly then waiting for the tide is time-consuming and easy to get wrong, and usually means standing up to my chest in the sea for an hour or more while the boat settles.

I really wouldn't want to do it every time I sailed.

That reminds me, must check that the mice haven't nibbled my waders again....

 

[Blueboatman]

Aye to the faff, having done it with a corribee too back in the day - but it was def still worth it.
?
Here’s what I learnt
You may probably need a stout rope and a sound jockey wheel , to get the trailer down to a float-off depth ( and vice versa) whilst still keeping the pulling vehicle up on solid level non slippery ground.
Then there is the extra faff of playing with the jockey wheel and a loaded trailer to connect/disconnect from the hitch

And the slipway will need to be pothole free so that the trailer glides down ( and back up) without being rigidly attached to the back of the car and doesn’t get stuck or skewed with one wheel in a deep crack..
And a couple of vertical guide poles on the sides will be invaluable to bring the boat back in on the centreline , all in relatively murky deeper water with 1m
So, much will depend on conditions at the launch site

 

[BenMurphy]

One advantage of bilge keels is that you may be able to use a suitable car trailer for it, rather than a boat trailer, which could save a fair bit of money.

However, based on what I've seen and read, there are a lot of people who think a trailer sailer means they go somewhere, set up, launch and go sailing, but find that the set, launch and recovery is too much faff. They end up leaving the boat afloat for the season, only trailing to come home for winter or for a cruise in a new area.

That's an interesting point. At the moment I have a 27' Hunter Horizon in the water in Cardiff, but I live around 1 hour 30 minutes away and we hardly get over there. Also I find the Bristol Channel quite limited for cruising.

My thinking was that a trailer sailer would be more flexible, and in my head I'd be getting up early, running her to the coast and quickly popping her in the water. Perhaps I'm being naive...

The idea of just renting a mooring for a season in a different cruising ground every year is an interesting one though. I guess a few hours manhandling her in / out of the water isn't such a big deal if you're going to leave her there in that case.

 

[BenMurphy]

Aye to the faff, having done it with a corribee too back in the day - but it was def still worth it.
?
Here’s what I learnt
You may probably need a stout rope and a sound jockey wheel , to get the trailer down to a float-off depth ( and vice versa) whilst still keeping the pulling vehicle up on solid level non slippery ground.
Then there is the extra faff of playing with the jockey wheel and a loaded trailer to connect/disconnect from the hitch

And the slipway will need to be pothole free so that the trailer glides down ( and back up) without being rigidly attached to the back of the car and doesn’t get stuck or skewed with one wheel in a deep crack..
And a couple of vertical guide poles on the sides will be invaluable to bring the boat back in on the centreline , all in relatively murky deeper water with 1m
So, much will depend on conditions at the launch site

Here's an interesting question then: if you're basically fully submerging the trailer - particularly in saltwater - I assume you went through a pretty thorough cleaning routine with the bearings etc after each launch / recovery. How did you keep everything in top nick?

 

[Blueboatman]

Here's an interesting question then: if you're basically fully submerging the trailer - particularly in saltwater - I assume you went through a pretty thorough cleaning routine with the bearings etc after each launch / recovery. How did you keep everything in top nick?

Didn’t want to write overlengthily :
Yes .
I let the bearings cool, greased em then launched . On hauling out , I had freshwater hoses that in theory washed out the wheel hubs ( 2 of the four wheels had run on brakes)

Being a four wheeled trailer it was that much more forgiving of a puncture ( happened once), crosswinds , bumpy lanes with bad camber and being manhandled around unattached to the hitch. I also had air dampers on the rear car springs which could be pumped up with a 12v tyre compressor to regulate the cars trim with respect to the hitch load . I think modem cars possibly take care of that a bit better (?)

All galvanised box section, no closed ends , no painted surfaces

Opening up new cruising areas and knowing you essentially have a stable twin keel load on a stable 4 wheel base, were worth the bit of faffing at launch and recovery, it’s just detail detail

 

[Tranona]

That's an interesting point. At the moment I have a 27' Hunter Horizon in the water in Cardiff, but I live around 1 hour 30 minutes away and we hardly get over there. Also I find the Bristol Channel quite limited for cruising.

My thinking was that a trailer sailer would be more flexible, and in my head I'd be getting up early, running her to the coast and quickly popping her in the water. Perhaps I'm being naive...

The idea of just renting a mooring for a season in a different cruising ground every year is an interesting one though. I guess a few hours manhandling her in / out of the water isn't such a big deal if you're going to leave her there in that case.

Your second sentence gets to the heart of the problem - nice dream - but not reality. It works in some parts of the world perhaps where you have big towing vehicles, wide roads, tideless warm waters, large slipways, space to park the car and trailer. In other words nothing like the UK. While it can work for trailing to a location for a holiday and keeping the boat at home when not in use, trailing for a day or even a weekend with a boat that size is really hard work.

TBH if you find you can't use a boat like you have now then the hassles of trailer sailing is probably not for you. However, I agree that the Bristol Channel is not the best location for casual sailing and cruising compared with the south or east coasts.

 

[LittleSister]

My thinking was that a trailer sailer would be more flexible, and in my head I'd be getting up early, running her to the coast and quickly popping her in the water. Perhaps I'm being naive...

I think you are. I am not saying it is impossible, but for most people it would not be practical or attractive.

It does actually take quite a lot of time and effort, in practice, to set up fenders and lines, launch the boat (a whole subject in itself), tie it up, find somewhere to park the car and trailer (rarely available immediately adjacent to the launch ramp, in my experience), raise the mast, fit the sails, etc.etc.. Then do the reverse at the end of the day/weekend. It takes much longer, and can sometimes get a bit fraught, doing it single handed.

Like most things, one could get faster and more slick with it with practise, especially if you launch/ at the same place each time,. so you are not every time doing reconnaissance, finding out what the parking opportunities and charges regime are, what are the tidal constraints, when it is quiet and busy, etc. etc.

Leaving aside dinghies, I've had two trailer sailers: a 16' 3" Shipmate Dayboat centre-boarder, and a 17' 3" Express Pirate. I might have once or twice taken the Shipmate somewhere for a long weekend or a week to somewhere different, but generally only launched them at the beginning of the season, and then retrieved them at the end of it to take them home for the winter.

The Shipmate, drawing only a few inches and light in weight, was easiest to launch by a long way. The Express Pirate I ended up getting boatyards to lift it in or back onto its trailer.

As ProDave mentioned, 'dry launching' off the trailer onto the slipway or beach can a useful technique, avoiding immersing the brakes and bearings, and can also mean you are launching when it is quiet, avoiding the often mad, sometimes aggressive, scramble and jostling at popular slipways when the tide reaches them. I often dry launched the Shipmate, but of course it adds yet more time as you have to wait for the tide. For me sometimes trying to do it single-handed, however, that time waiting for the tide was not wasted, as I could use it to go and park the car and trailer, and then set the mast etc. up, possibly even have a cup of tea before the boat floated off.

On one occasion, however, I had 'dry-launched' the boat onto the beach below a slipway, laid out some chain and dug in the anchor in case I was delayed returning, and went off to park the car and trailer. By the time I got back the tide had reached the slipway, and there was a queue of lads launching their powerboats, one of whom had apparently taken a dislike to my chain lying across the sand below the slipway, pulled up the anchor and slung it to the side. Luckily the wind had kept the boat inshore, where it sat grounded, rather than taking it out into the estuary where it would have been out of my reach and disappearing fast!

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

 

[doug748]

With a sound trailer at least you do not have to choke on boatyard prices for winter storage and can shoot off to a new spot every year.

I would have the boat lifted in a yard, at the start and finish of your season, then off you go. It would be money well spent and swinging moorings are easy to get for that type of boat for c£300 pa upwards. Your lifts would be c£100 + each way (plus trailer storage if required)

.

 

[Fantasie 19]

That's an interesting point. At the moment I have a 27' Hunter Horizon in the water in Cardiff, but I live around 1 hour 30 minutes away and we hardly get over there.

By the time you've driven there, launched, rigged, it will be getting on for two or three times that... takes me a good hour just to put the mast up on my 20 foot bilge keeler... and thats with 3 of us.... on my older much smaller 19'er launching, and worse still recovery, took a good hour of shifting and pushing and levering.. I'd move your boat somewhere more inviting if it was me...

 

[Spirit (of Glenans)]

Aye to the faff, having done it with a corribee too back in the day - but it was def still worth it.
?
.
And a couple of vertical guide poles on the sides will be invaluable to bring the boat back in on the centreline , all in relatively murky deeper water with 1m
So, much will depend on conditions at the launch site

I improvised with four plastic soft drinks bottles tied on short lines close by the four corners of the trailer!

 

[Blueboatman]

I improvised with four plastic soft drinks bottles tied on short lines close by the four corners of the trailer!

Red ones AND green ones ?

 

[Praxinoscope]

Our first boat was a Leisure 17 which we trailed around on an old car trailer that a friendly blacksmith modified for us.
Most of the trailing was the 90 odd miles to and from home to our mooring, but we did trail it to a couple of alternative locations as a trailer sailer, as long as we could find a decent slipway it was all relatively easy.