Biggest boat without commercial ticket?

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Magnum

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What is the biggest boat you can skipper without a commercial ticket? Seem to remember it's about 24m but measured in an unusual way. Average of waterline length and OAL I think but remember rudder position being relevant, I think.

Also at what length must you have qualified crew?
 
Why not get a commercial ticket? Not years of work for entry-level YM commercial and suncoast's gang can do a week-long course if you do some theory first. Then i think it's up to 300 tons. Huh, but the blimmin course doesn't tell you what you can and can't drive/skipper...

I remeber something about 24m as well. I wd say you'll need crew at least at that size just with hoovering and being around for engine service bods, the aircon bods and etc etc...
 
Depending on area of operation there is no limit to size provided your not carrying passengers or trading.
Different countries have their own rules on this, but I believe the UK has no limit. There may be some problem getting insurance, and local bye-laws may be restrictive if you can't prove competency.
 
If it's purely for your own use, and you are not carrying paying passengers or using the vessel commercially, you do not need any qualification for a British flagged vessel up to 80GRT. From 80GRT to 200 GRT you will need YM as a minimum. Above 200GRT you will need the full STCW 95.

If for commercial use, for ANY BOAT under 24m with up to 12 paying passengers, you need a RYA certificate with a commercial endorsement. The vessel of course also needs a commercial certificate - MCA COP - and on older boats this can be difficult.
 
The slightly worrying bit (for me sometimes before getting my commercial bit) was that when you read the COP it says nothing about passengers having to be fee paying.

They consider passengers to be anyone not contracted on board and not on the crew list and also anyone under minimum school leaving age! reading through this passage implies that most boats carry passengers and should thus be coded with a commercial skipper.

It seems a bit of a grey area, if you pick up some friends for the day and stay in one country you may not put them on the crew list, if your not checking in and out...and according to "the book" they could then be passengers.

Otherwise the length and weight thing is as harod said.
 
You're right, of course - the area is a very grey one. As far as I'm aware the base definition is as given in the Merchant Shipping (Vessels in Commercial Use for Sport or Pleasure) Regulations 1998 SI 1998 No 2771:-

"pleasure vessel" means-

(a) any vessel which at the time it is being used is:

(i)

(aa) in the case of a vessel wholly owned by an individual or individuals, used only for the sport or pleasure of the owner or the immediate family or friends of the owner; or

(bb) in the case of a vessel owned by a body corporate, used only for sport or pleasure and on which the persons on board are employees or officers of the body corporate, or their immediate family or friends; and

(ii) on a voyage or excursion which is one for which the owner does not receive money for or in connection with operating the vessel or carrying any person, other than as a contribution to the direct expenses of the operation of the vessel incurred during the voyage or excursion; or.....

BUT I think it was the Men In Tights in a post-98 judgement that altered the position a little - I seem to recall a legal caveat published by the MCA giving this. Not a lawyer, so can't be sure what this all means ...

The definition of 'relative' as far as the MCA are concerned means brother, sister, ancestor or lineal descendant of you or your missus / hubby. Cousins must therefore be classed as 'friends' rather than 'relatives'. Hoho.
 
So if no commercial use the 24m bit means nothing? So a 105' boat under 80 tons requires no qualification at all? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
 
Uhm, seems to be the case.
Can't see a loophole though - this lady is 23.9m but 128GRT :-


A 105' vessel under 80 GRT would be skinnier than Posh ...
loyalgovernor.jpg
 
Nope...Herod is right.

My ocean yachtmaster says up to 200grt, but is subject to codes of practice ie MCA....which says its OK for vessels less than 80grt or under 24m (so could be heavier but shorter) and carrying less than 12 passengers, which are exempt from merchant shipping regulations. STCW is the merchant shipping requirement which applies to larger vessels and hence some charter vessels which is why sailing schools offer this.

But many people seem to think that its whats needed for charter crewing or skippering...in my mind its all too blimmin complicated. Partly cos its been through a few changes in the past 10 years.
 
But are really big boat sensible with quals?

Um, i suppose this is an issue of insurance but might also be an issue of local regulations.

Even though legalluy it might be okay to skipper a 95 footer, frinstance, if there was any incident - would the investigators look more closely at the actions of utterly unqualified skipper? would not the lack of suitable qualification count against them?

Even with "only" a 67 footer, i wd've thort that getting a YM is a good idea.

The "commercial endorsement" bit is a half day first aid, a full day sea survival getting in/out of liferafts and a brief medical. Send that lot off with YM ticket to rya and it comes back with commercial endoresement.
 
Boats under 80 tons :-

Ferretti 830 (69)
Azimut 80 (57)
Mangusta 92 (66 empty)
Riva Opera 85 (71.5)

Yummy /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Re: But are really big boat sensible with quals?

tcm, I appreciate the value of a YM and am in middle of getting the theory side done. Just wanted to understand the law.
 
But it\'s Gross Registered Tonnage

GRT is much bigger - even a piddling Leopard 23m is 67.28 GRT but displacement (in the brocgure) is probly under 40. Hence your LOA thingies perhaps - that's summink to do with how GRT is calculated.
 
Re: But it\'s Gross Registered Tonnage

My understanding is the restriction is either length OR GRT, the length I understand is the load line length not the LOA.

The load line length as defined in the yellow COP:

"Load Line Length" means either 96% of the total length on a waterline at 85% of the least moulded depth measured from the top of the keel, or the length from the fore side of the stem to the axis of the rudder stock on the waterline, whichever is the greater. In a vessel designed with a rake of the keel, the waterline on which this length is measured should be parallel to the design waterline.

tcm, your totaly correct about the GRT it's actualy a measurement of internal volume not weight.
 
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