Big Boat - Small Boat

[poter]

The recent post regarding the new Moody 45 (YM July) & in the same article a report on the Zeydon Z60', a Salona 42', a Hanse 43', & some new Elans 40' & a 51', set me thinking - not one new boat reported in the sub 40' range! So are we now entering an era where all new boats are plus 40'? where are the Sigma's, Contessa's, Westerly's, or small Moody's?
I for one do not understand what is driving the manufacturer's to build big sailing craft, is it demand, manufacturing necessity or just the 'big is beautiful', concept? Even the Jan/Bav/Ben boats seem to be at least 40' or more...Why?
Whatever happened to a 30 footer being a really big boat?

My really big 35', can sleep 7 at a push but there would normally be only 2, & sometimes 4, which is comfortable. any more & there would be problems with overcrowding, getting in each others way and even possibly some safety concerns. Do all the owners of 40' plus yachts have extended family's or many many sailing mates? I don't think so!
In most marinas on a busy weekend you will probably see only 1 or 2 with more than 2 crew - so apart from the ocean going adventurer or racing yachts, where is the rationale for a 40' plus boat?

In the Med its even worse, most of the Marinas in South of France are choker with Jeannu 45DS's or similar & if you actually look out to sea on a good sailing day there are maybe only 1 or 2 boats, yet the Marinas are full!

I really am at a loss to see what the attraction is, apart from 'I have a bigger one than you!' & although I really hate the comparison - is sailing/sailing boats now just becoming caravanning on the sea?

poter. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[Bajansailor]

In a nutshell, I think it is just not economic for these large companies to build smaller vessels - or rather, they make less profit from smaller boats than bigger boats, as the bigger boats probably take not much more man-hours to actually build, when compared with a 'smaller' yacht.

If this is the case, it is a very narrow minded decision, probably made by accountants rather than realistic sailing people.
Many people would (I am sure) like to stick with a brand name and 'work their way up' through the range - that is, if there is a range where you can begin with a 'starter' boat, and trade up over the years.
There certainly seems to be relatively few new 'small' yachts being built these days, compared to 20 years ago.

 

[ChrisE]

You wonder what is driving the bigger boat rush. I'd guess it was that peeps are generally getting wealthier, have more disposable income and the manufacturers are reponding to that.

As you say you don't see too many of the tem out on the water, the stats are that 90% of boats moored in The Solent never leave it (so I've heard). Thus, they are being bought as floaitng country cottage rather than a sailing vessel. I've heard them referred to as 'Olympic flames' - they never go out.



or it could just be that we are jealous crabby old gits.......

 

[poter]

Crabby old gits?

yeh...could be? /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

But Bajan makes a good point re accountants look what's happened to Moody!
Will they now also be on a production line?

 

[FullCircle]

Poter,
I can opnly congratulate you on your perspicacity on choosing 35 foot. A wise choice indeed.
Not so large that you cannot take it out either single handed or short handed, and not small so that you have to avoid weather.
Few boats under 35 foot have the RCD A category rating (whether you subscribe to the RCD argument is aqnother matter), which gives a wider weather window.
There are still moorings available sub 11m, but the minimum in most marinas is 7m and is moving toward 8m.
Also, (in my case) SWMBO has all the facility she recognises and makes her comfortable, like Heating, Pressurised Water, Headroom in cabins etc.
The cost of maintenence is a well struck compromise. I think 40 foot and over is a big cost and labour undertaking, so unless you can afford to hire in the yard.
The argument is of course that we are getting wealthier, and this is undoubtedly true. In my socio-economic group, we would not have aspired to 35 foot 20 years ago. I was delighted with my 26 footer then. But also, people who went sailing were a much hardier group. Today, the boats are bought a lot more by people who have chartered or have done sailing hols.

Having said that, where I am in Burnham, the majority of the 400-500 boats on the swinging moorings are still in the 22-32ft category, and are obviously aging. I dont see what their replacements will be, other than the 35ft 'starter' boats of today.
I certainly like sailing on bigger boats, but I dont want to own one.

 

[ValleyForge]

Afloat this weekend (for the first time this year) on our little boat on our little lake (W'mere) we were struck with the sheer size of the craft floating about & at anchor. 90% seemed to be between 35' & 45', a couple bigger, a handfull smaller.

Very different to even 10 years ago. 25 years ago a Corribee was the norm and a 24' job pure luxury........(& you could buy fish & chips for 3p & still have change ... - no thats ... crikey, don't time fly !)

 

[Lizzie_B]

Catalina Yachts www.catalinayachts.com make boats ranging from 8 to 47ft. They are well built for a competitive price. Unsurprisingly, they are a highly successful and profitable company - so it can be done.

You can now buy their products in the EU (much to the annoyance of certain French and German 'bulk' producers. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif


I think the difference is that the guy that runs the company is a keen sailor, and they put in a huge effort on customer care.
As a result they get a lot of business from loyal customers working their way up through the sizes of their range because they trust the company.

 

[JasB]

Even the Catalina range seem to miss the "floating Caravan" market, you have to go up to 28ft before you get a separate forepeak cabin

Make that 29.5 feet...the Catalina 28 is a misnomer

 

[JasB]

I am wrong, the 250, which is 1" under 27ft long has a aft berth if you can put up with a porta-potty

 

[poter]

Jim,
Thanks for that.........

As you are aware a 35' seems to be a good compromise we are not all Robin Knox-Johnston's but a heavy 35' gives me & more importantly SWMBO a lot of confidence in bad weather & sailing where I do in the Gulf du lion you can go from dead calm to 25-30 knots in a couple of hours.

As you rightly say the cost, although still a big chunk from income, is substancially less than a 40' plus, I am well paid & now have no children dependants, but I would find it very hard to justify, even on a 35', spending £5 to £6k just on parking- in the South West & thats after after me giving HMG a lot of Tax.
I do spend a lot on kit, air fares etc. to S.of F. but after a long time working & as you say - started out with a small sailor & worked up to a 35 footer. However I am not so sad, that I don't look at other yachts & would luv to get my hands on a 36' Rustler which in my very humble opinion is one of the most beautiful Yachts now made, & the right size as well.

poter

 

[flaming]

A lot of companies have decided that they will focus on the larger end of the market, and it's easy to see why.

However I don't think it's all doom and gloom, there are a number of small companies making high quality small "pocket cruisers" meaning that the small boat buyer often has at least as much choice, and often the boats on offer do give genuine choice of alternative ideas in rig design and keel configuration.
With 3 or 4 major boat builders monopolising the larger sizes none of the major players can afford to be much out of line with the percieved norm. This means for the prospective buyer the choice often comes down to the smaller differences such as "size of fridge" rather than the more basic ones such as ketch vs sloop, long keel vs short etc.

 

[Lizzie_B]

The 27 has an aft cabin. and there are still several models to go through before you get to the 40 foot mark that as the OP was complaining some manufacturers seem to start at.
Perhaps that's why the 309 is Cruising Worlds boat of the year instead of some 45 footer.

 

[Lizzie_B]

The 25 is in fact 25ft long - the 26ft 11inches is including the overhang of the pulpit and pushpit.
It's refreshing to see manufacturers putting precise information in their sales literature. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

If only people would read it. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

[jenku]

I went to the Stockholm international boat show this spring and was pleased to see that this was the first time in many years time that there were quite some new small boats on display. This was even realised by the press who ran articles speculating on why boats had become so big, but also stated that this trend now seems to have stopped.
Most of these new small boat are trailer sailors between 17 and 22 feet, the lifting/swing/whatever keel now apparently having been accepted even in Scandinavia (people previouse having been afraid they would get chopped off by rocks or so).
Anyway, it looks like there is hope again. However, I also realise that in the US the small boat market is very much bigger still. If you have a look at "Small Craft Advisor" Magazine there are dozens of ads for small boats of all shapes and kinds. So they are being built, they just don't seem to come over here.

Still, there seems to be a trend dividing the boating community int two groups, those who want status symbols (big boats that rarely move) and those that actually want to be on the water (small boats getting you out without too much fussing).

 

[davidwf]

Beneteau are still making smaller boats and are doing very well judging by the numbers on the water, ie First 21.7, 25,7 and 27.7 models.

 

[Lizzie_B]

Excellent. Well done beneteau. I sailed on an Oceanis 331 (much better to windward in a rough sea than the Bavaria 34 IMHO)recently and very nice boat it was too. I thought from all the fuss that they must have stopped making them.

I just wish Dufour would start making the Arpege again. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[Sailfree]

Most AWB manufacturers have small boats in their range and the secret of what numbers and size of boats they manufacture is surprise , surprise - what the customers order!!

I suspect that there is a trend for 1st boats to be larger. We graduated from dinghys to a 36' boat and also the market for new boats is probably people trading up from smaller older boats.

 

[Guest]

Having been involved in a Boat Builders biz and agent to export ... I was always pushing him to build smaller boats ... His answer was plain ... Materials / labour / time / costs were similar to a boat 10ft bigger .. and therefore % margins got slimmer and slimmer as you came down in size. The cost of the boat as well became higher than many would pay .. he used the last Westerly 25 as example .. I think it was called the Regatta .... price was just too much for that size of boat ... you could buy a bigger boat for similar money.

He finally did start a 26 - but it is aimed fair and square at the race market in Baltic.

 

[jenku]

That's why all the small boats at the boatshow where built on your side of the Baltic. Mostly in Poland or Estonia. Soon we probably will get small boats imported from China.

 

[Cloona]

seems that any eco concerns are best met by buying second hand and small - perhaps